W220 vs W212 - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tusabes View Post
You can get a W221 with the 5 speed in the S600 with vastly improved abc . I’d say the W221 feels larger and lore luxurious than the W220. The W220 feels more nimble .

The W221 and W220 are way better than the w212, but the w211 is a great car ,perhaps better than the w212- especially the models with the m112/m113/m113k and Cdi. The w209 clk class is likewise nice . I have the w208 clk430 and it’s nowhere near as comfortable as my s430 despite having the same power train . And of course nowhere near as luxurious . But the w209 clk from 2004 and later made big improvements .
I haven’t had the chance to dig in to a W211 I thought they had major issues as well. I’m going to be looking for a V8 Powertrain model. I don’t want to deal with less than a V8. It’s what I’ve been accustomed to. E65 AMG would be a serious animal in my book. The W212 E350 is just lacking too much, for way too much price and not enough kit.

I’ve literally put it side by side with W220 and there is no comparison whatsoever. 10 years newer, and just a waste of time for me. It’s not even leather inside. Smh.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 04:44 AM Thread Starter
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Hi,

IMHO another side to the coin .................

I've driven 211, 212 and the latest 2017 models, (213 ?), as well as W220's W221's old and newer.

I had the latest model (well a 2017 with 3000 is miles when I got it), AMG Line Diesel for 2 weeks around 18 months / 2 years back, and I did around 4000 miles in it on all different roads, traffic, nice weather, foul weather, long distance, short hops etc etc.
If someone wanted to swap me one for my W220, hell yeah, all day long !!

They are fantastic Cars, but (obviously), they are a lesser model, nice 220, 221 / 222 S Class they are not. Nor is their price tag.

I recently drove a W220 500 yards and turned back, didn't buy it, it would not have driven 350 / 400 miles home !!
I have a fairly nice C215 V12 here right now, and right now I wouldn't drive it 20 miles back to it's owner, who has been doing hundreds of miles blissfully unaware of some faults it has [IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/BenzWorld2/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png[/IMG]

When it leaves here in a few days it will drive a whole lot safer / nicer.

The only reason folks don't like newer MB's is because they they have either driven one with issues, don't understand them, or don't have the knowledge and equipment to fix them, (more of both latter needed the newer the model is).

The folks who bought them new will have their back ends raped by the Stealerships, and likely not be bothered by that.

I have done extensive repair works to a customers 170 k mile 2011 E Class Wagon, over the last couple of years and not once have I needed to go "On Line" to MB.

If the 7 speed Auto needs a "Mechatronic Valve Block" there is plenty aftermarket companies that can clone them or supply one pre programmed from VIN for a whole bunch less than the Stealerships.

Just my 10p worth [IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/BenzWorld2/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG]

Dave I think the W213 is a baby Sclass literally. It looks like an S550 as I can see.

I don’t like a lot of the newer Mercedes because I don’t agree with how they are built. There’s no reason you should have a Luxury package on a Luxury car. That’s ridiculous. Sport yes. That should mean you combine sport and luxury to get a first class machine.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 07:47 AM
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Dave, you kinda illustrated my point there. It does require a certain level of knowledge and equipment, and you're a (rather good) professional mechanic. Most of us here, myself included, are not, though it is a hobby that I do take fairly seriously. In my case, I'm a systems and cybersecurity engineer, and I can show you just about every problem with your IT infrastructure and help you fix it. I can completely rebuild your network the way you can rebuild a car. But I'm nowhere near your level yet when it comes to an automotive technician's work. You also know how to get SCN codes by going through someone else, but that someone else ultimately has to have a connection to the M-B mothership. I hear that folks in the EU can get around that due to an anti-trust lawsuit in Europe, but that's EU-only. Maybe it's out there on a CD/DVD or Bittorrent or whatever--I wouldn't be surprised.

But M-B shouldn't have done that nonsense in the first place, because, to me, the W212 is a *gorgeous* car, especially the pre-facelift look. That body, with the M112/M113/M113K/OM648 and 722.6 drivetrain, would probably be a Really Terrific Car.

Tusabes has a point about the V12 W221's, because they do indeed have the 5-speed transmisions, up to a certain year (2012, I believe?). So, down the road, I might consider a W221 with the V12, up to that year, assuming that I can get around the SCN code nonsense. But the S550's all have 7-speeds, and they're vastly more common, just as S430's and S500's are in the W220 line.
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2000 S430 (Dad's car, used for special occasions)
2000 S500 (wife's DD: my first W220 project car)
2003 S600 ("sex on wheels"--second w220 project car)
2003 S430 (one of two current DD's--third W220 project car)
2005 E320 CDI (the other current DD--first W211 project car)

Last edited by cowboyt; 05-31-2019 at 06:53 AM. Reason: minor grammatical fix
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by nrphlly View Post
I haven’t had the chance to dig in to a W211 I thought they had major issues as well. I’m going to be looking for a V8 Powertrain model. I don’t want to deal with less than a V8. It’s what I’ve been accustomed to. E65 AMG would be a serious animal in my book. The W212 E350 is just lacking too much, for way too much price and not enough kit.

I’ve literally put it side by side with W220 and there is no comparison whatsoever. 10 years newer, and just a waste of time for me. It’s not even leather inside. Smh.
The w211 is fine with the m113 or m113k engine (e500 and e55)
Avoid the 2006-2007 e550 and any e63 up to year 2012 unless their engines have been updated as they both have engine design defects . These defects are curable though. The e63 has head bolt /head gasket issues just like Cadillac northstars
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Last edited by tusabes; 05-31-2019 at 01:35 AM.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tusabes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrphlly View Post
I haven’t had the chance to dig in to a W211 I thought they had major issues as well. I’m going to be looking for a V8 Powertrain model. I don’t want to deal with less than a V8. It’s what I’ve been accustomed to. E65 AMG would be a serious animal in my book. The W212 E350 is just lacking too much, for way too much price and not enough kit.

I’ve literally put it side by side with W220 and there is no comparison whatsoever. 10 years newer, and just a waste of time for me. It’s not even leather inside. Smh.
The w211 is fine with the m113 or m113k engine (e500 and e55)
Avoid the 2006-2007 e550 and any e63 up to year 2012 unless their engines have been updated as they both have engine design defects . These defects are curable though. The e63 has head bolt /head gasket issues just like Cadillac northstars
Is the suspension in the E500 airmatic?
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 10:03 AM
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Yes it is
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 02:23 PM
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In the W211 forum, I remember a fairly recent thread describing the challenges with working on the rear AIRmatic springs on the W211's. Apparently you've got to lower the subframe. We don't have to do that on a W220; they're fairly easy on all four corners.
@nrp hilly, I would suggest getting another W220 if you want a sweet-honker of a V8 car. There's a fellow who I spoke with in (I think) northern Arkansas last night. He says he's got a black-on-black 2005 S430 with 86,000 miles on it, with all maintenance records. Not sure how far that is from you.

2000 S430 (Dad's car, used for special occasions)
2000 S500 (wife's DD: my first W220 project car)
2003 S600 ("sex on wheels"--second w220 project car)
2003 S430 (one of two current DD's--third W220 project car)
2005 E320 CDI (the other current DD--first W211 project car)
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 07:52 AM
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Hi,

I'm still going to be the 's advocate here ........................

All Cars have certain jobs that are an absolute Bears ass.

I'm just doing a Rear Lower Swivel on my R170, yep you heard that right, a Swivel, not a Bush, an actual Metal on Metal Swivelling Bush, in the bottom of the Rear Hub Carrier, where the Large Wishbone attaches, that big one with plastic cover, like on W220 / C215 .................. I'd imagine the S Class and CL has this too, believe it or not I've never had to do one.
It's the one arm that you don't get in a Febi Kit, where the Airmatic or ABC Shock bolts on to, or in the Case of the R170, the Spring seats in it and the Shocker bolts on

That swivelling bush is the only bit that I haven't replaced on that back end, and yeah, every time our roads are dry, the squeak squeak squeak dry metallic squeak from Right rear returns.

Easy enough, you'd think, about 4 bolts, well yeah, sort of, but just try getting it out of the Hub Carrier without completely removing everything and using a Press

It's done now, but remember I have a lift and more than fully equipped workshop ..............

My point, regarding this topic, well ....................

The R170 is one of the easiest Cars to work on, I reckon I could strip it to a Bare Shell, all into individual parts over Saturday and maybe a bit of Sunday

Airbags on a 211, , but Airbags on a 212 , and Compressor, and Valve Block, all an absolute doddle did the full set in about 2 hours recently.

Back to the 722.9 Valve Blocks that are a theft relevant part, and need SCN Coding, or at least 3rd party intervention, well hey W200 has a Shifter that is a theft relevant part and cannot be coded by SDS unless you buy a brand new one or find someone who will actually Virginise one for you to unlock it .....................

Gonna go out on a limb here and say is it just perhaps the ya know is better than the ya don't ?????????????????????????

It's no good asking me, I'm just a grumpy old git who swears at most cars at some point, so it's only my 10p worth, but I'm working on late stuff and still never had one I can't fix, and still never needed a Main Stealermothership to do any programming etc

Chow


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Last edited by Dave2302; 06-01-2019 at 07:57 AM.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post

That swivelling bush is the only bit that I haven't replaced on that back end, and yeah, every time our roads are dry, the squeak squeak squeak dry metallic squeak from Right rear returns.

Easy enough, you'd think, about 4 bolts, well yeah, sort of, but just try getting it out of the Hub Carrier without completely removing everything and using a Press
This kit removes and installs rear carrier lower joint in 10 minutes flat.


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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 08:39 AM
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Hi,

Thanks for that.

I think you missed my point, it wasn't really about the R170, and I did not completely remove the Hub Carrier and press it, it was just a very current example from today

I do have the MB Version of that kit but it doesn't fit / do an R170 !! The picture is not the same as R170, although a similar layout.

I made something similar up and then after a little "warming heat" and plenty penetrating oil , then it came out in under 2 mins

Looking at that picture, my assumption that W220 / C215 uses these swivelling bushes may be wrong, looks like W220 / C215 Hub Carrier may use a Rubber type Bush, like I say, first one of these I've actually done

See pics below, I just took these, sadly I didn't take any of actually removing the Bushing.

I'm gonna put it back together in a while, (Arm and Spring and Road Wheel), that's all that's left to do now, having a late lunch right now
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Last edited by Dave2302; 06-01-2019 at 08:45 AM.
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