Slight idle vibration (intermittent) - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Astro14 View Post
It's an interesting tool, and I can see its merit, but it is far from the tool, or results, of the professionals.

For $17 an injector, Paul at Hurst Injectors cleaned the injectors in an ultrasonic tank, which removes all the deposits. Some deposits don't respond to solvents alone. He had to clean mine twice to get the results he wanted. He then flow tested them on his Bosch injector machine. So, for a less than the cost of the tool, the injectors were completely cleaned, and flow tested. All the injectors flowed within 0.5% of each other. As I said, a big improvement in smoothness and power.

Now, if the injectors on your car are truly buggered, well, then the tool above will make a difference and improve the situation. But improving the situation is not the same as achieving the best result.

That tool might get them completely clean, and might not. Further, there will be no measurement of cleaning effectiveness and no guarantee that the injectors will flow the same when complete.

This is a case where a professional really does make a difference.


Definitely nothing to compare with advanced tools, surely anyone with access to these kinds of equipment should go for it. Emm... Like I have never seen this tool, I don't think it exists where I live... ...

for one or more reasons some may want to do a quick DIY or just use a cleaning agent as 4DGeorge has posted.

If done well though, I think it gets it close to 90% clean... Maybe more . Certainly we don't have a microscopic look but it always looks so good and sprays so uniformly. Best of all; the car just runs like new. Basically you spray it generously... You will see it looking brilliant.


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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro14 View Post
It's an interesting tool, and I can see its merit, but it is far from the tool, or results, of the professionals.

For $17 an injector, Paul at Hurst Injectors cleaned the injectors in an ultrasonic tank, which removes all the deposits. Some deposits don't respond to solvents alone. He had to clean mine twice to get the results he wanted. He then flow tested them on his Bosch injector machine. So, for a less than the cost of the tool, the injectors were completely cleaned, and flow tested. All the injectors flowed within 0.5% of each other. As I said, a big improvement in smoothness and power.

Now, if the injectors on your car are truly buggered, well, then the tool above will make a difference and improve the situation. But improving the situation is not the same as achieving the best result.

That tool might get them completely clean, and might not. Further, there will be no measurement of cleaning effectiveness and no guarantee that the injectors will flow the same when complete.

This is a case where a professional really does make a difference.
How right you are. Sometimes, it's best to just "Pay The Man".

However, this may be a case of "First World-itis". For you and me here in the United States, what you say is true. Not every locale has that kind of shop with those kinds of tools available, unfortunately, or if they do, it can be prohibitively expensive, so sometimes you have to get creative. I have a dear friend in Thailand who does her own brake jobs and other maintenance (her day job is as a senior financial analyst, supervising people, for a major multinational firm). Her car is a Honda. She explained to me that given the wage differences between Thailand and, say, the United States, sometimes you just have to improvise things. Necessity indeed is the mother of invention.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cowboyt View Post
How right you are. Sometimes, it's best to just "Pay The Man".

However, this may be a case of "First World-itis". For you and me here in the United States, what you say is true. Not every locale has that kind of shop with those kinds of tools available, unfortunately, or if they do, it can be prohibitively expensive, so sometimes you have to get creative. I have a dear friend in Thailand who does her own brake jobs and other maintenance (her day job is as a senior financial analyst, supervising people, for a major multinational firm). Her car is a Honda. She explained to me that given the wage differences between Thailand and, say, the United States, sometimes you just have to improvise things. Necessity indeed is the mother of invention.


Thanks for your 'global' thinking...


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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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I have a friend that owns a Midas shop and he is able to do a full fuel system clean. He's says it's a 3 stage clean with the final stage being BG44K put in the tank as an additive. I think I might do this. Does anyone have any experience with a process like this, and if there are any risks?
The car is a 2004 S500 with 196,000Km (approx 120,000 miles)
Thanks
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by oliverp View Post
I have a friend that owns a Midas shop and he is able to do a full fuel system clean. He's says it's a 3 stage clean with the final stage being BG44K put in the tank as an additive. I think I might do this. Does anyone have any experience with a process like this, and if there are any risks?
The car is a 2004 S500 with 196,000Km (approx 120,000 miles)
Thanks
Ollie
Isn't this what the guys on Car Talk called a "Wallet Vac"?

I was sold a BG-44K treatment once, on my ancient 4 Runner....a 1990...still on the road with nearly 300,000 miles in the hands of its teenage owner...

Absolutely no difference after the treatment.

Except my wallet was considerably lighter when done. Over $100.

From the guy I know in the business, no on the car chemical cleaning is as effective as putting the injectors in the ultrasonic tank. Further, the injectors aren't tested afterwards, so your flow pattern wasn't checked and you have no idea if they flow better, if the pattern is good, or if the flow is balanced across injectors*.

My wife's Volvo idled much more smoothly after the off the car injector cleaning. Makes sense, all the injectors were balanced to within 0.5%. It cost me $84 including shipping. Far cheaper than the BG-44K wallet-vac option...

The only risk here is to your wallet.

Doubt they can make it worse...but they might, if one injector that was already flowing better than the others gets cleaned a bit, while the worst injector doesn't. You would exacerbate the flow difference...leading to poorer idling and performance.


*Here are some excerpts of the conversation with the owner of Hurst Injectors regarding the Bosch units on my wife's Volvo:

"All tested and in the machine till probably midnight, then test again.
I marked them 1-4 and 1& 4 had a less than optimal spray pattern and flow was off. Nothing horrible, dirty filters but for that many miles good. Electrically these are great 12.2 ohms on all 5 (temperature dependent, the shop is 65f) 9.9-10.1 mA which is excellent, what I am looking for here is consistency between all of them, nothing standing out on any of them."

"Hey Astro, will PM the tracking # later this AM. They did come out perfectly, I had to run 1&4 a little longer to get them withing 1% (actually they are within 0.5%). "

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Last edited by Astro14; 03-05-2019 at 08:17 AM.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 08:17 AM
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Look, it might work great for you.

But I don't hold out a ton of hope...

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I think removing the injectors and sending them away would be best, especially reading what you said. I may have better results starting with the engine and trans mounts.
Also, maybe I am expecting too much - the idle vibration (when it occurs) isn't that bad
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 08:55 AM
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I hear ya...

More work, and the car is down for a bit...but I think you're going to be happier with the results.

I have a slight flutter at idle. SDS doesn't show any abnormal fuel trims, and each cylinder checks out OK with the diagnostics, but I don't like it. It didn't used to idle that way, and with 100,000 miles on it, it could be many things, but I plan to remove the injectors have them cleaned at his shop this summer.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverp View Post
I have a friend that owns a Midas shop and he is able to do a full fuel system clean. He's says it's a 3 stage clean with the final stage being BG44K put in the tank as an additive. I think I might do this. Does anyone have any experience with a process like this, and if there are any risks?
The car is a 2004 S500 with 196,000Km (approx 120,000 miles)
Thanks
Ollie
Ollie,

I would try running two cans of BG44K back to back before starting to remove injectors

PS: I am actually doing that tomorrow to my car. Just got two cans in today.

Last edited by doni01; 03-05-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 10:21 PM
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I concur with disassembly, clean, reassembly. Works better no matter what you're working on.
However, if having the vehicle down for the duration is problematic, go for the two cans of BG 44K first. If the vehicle improves, but doesn't fully clear up the issue, then you can feel a little more confident sending the injectors off will improve the vehicle even more.
If both cans of 44K make no difference, then it's likely your issue lies elsewhere. Like the possibility of an intermittent vacuum leak, or heat failure of an electrical component (gets hot and expands, causing solder joints to micro-fracture and separate).
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