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post #421 of 485 (permalink) Old 10-12-2018, 06:16 AM
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"Extract Fan now in, jeez this thing shifts some Air lol, 6500 Cubic Metres p/hr"

Remember that you must have a filtered inlet for that much air, else it will suck air in thru cracks, bringing dirt and dust with it...

It is usually easier to blow filtered air in, pressurizing the area, instead of sucking unfiltered air in.

Wally

Last edited by wallyp; 10-12-2018 at 06:19 AM.
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post #422 of 485 (permalink) Old 10-12-2018, 06:36 AM
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^^ Hmm...that sounds like it makes sense. I've got a friend who owns a body shop and has done some work for me. His air evacuation system is pretty much all over the floor and sucks the fumes down. Heavy curtains, all that. I'm guessing that he's got a giant air intake filter and that any air seepage through door or curtain "cracks" is minimal. Thoughts on this?

2000 S430 (Dad's car, used for special occasions)
2000 S500 (wife's DD: my first W220 project car)
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post #423 of 485 (permalink) Old 10-12-2018, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

Wally is quite correct, positive pressure is what it's called, 2 big fans filtered in and filtered out is the way for a pro booth.
Not practical in my Workshop though.

If I had a proper booth I would have used Positive Pressure system, i.e. 2 Fans the same, one pumping in and one pumping out, also with Filters...........................

One Day lol

However, drawing in dust is not an issue where I live, rainy city lol, everything is so wet outside especially now, and will be until around March next year, so I do not forsee a problem

This Extract only set up will be better than what I had before, i.e. The workshop dust moving in the heated air, sticking in the airborne overspray and then settling on wet panels.
That is what was happening right now, this extract at higher than Car level will drag it outside
We'll see, I may paint the Sideskirts Sunday time permitting

Cheers Dave
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post #424 of 485 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

Hmmmm, well that "Sunday" in October never came,
I can't remember what now but there must have been someone or something that just couldn't wait, barely any W220 time at the moment

Anyway, a little update on Paintwork while it is drying so I can move it all and get that SLK in for a good look over later

Side Skirts and Front Bumper Mouldings now finished, Front Bumper is in Primer. 2 Jacking Point Covers and Front Towing Eye Cover now finished, but the 2 Headlamp Washer Covers and 2 of the Jacking Point Covers got reaction on the Base Coat last night, so will have to do them again, hence I only Clear coated the 3 bits in the middle of the stand

I think the problem is they are so small that I got the Base Coat on too heavy on them, will have to go easier next time, have not had reaction on any of the bigger stuff.

Looking at the Side Skirts etc and also those Panels I did Brilliant Silver for Mel's C Class, I'd say I've cracked the Clear Coat now, getting repeatable good finish.

Front Bumper next, needs a few little marks to be fillered, then re prime, then it will be ready for paint

Cheers for now, Dave
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post #425 of 485 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2302 View Post
Hi Guys,

...However, drawing in dust is not an issue where I live, rainy city
.....this extract at higher than Car level will drag it outside...

Cheers Dave
SuperDave, when setting up a clean room for medical use I saw them perform a smoke test. All they did was use a little hand held steam smoker (basically colored water in what looked like a tiny tea steamer pot) and walk it around all the edges, corners, seams, window frames, light fixtures, etc., to see where the room was leaking from. They only had one fan, as you currently do and after testing with the fan blowing one direction, flipped it over to blow the other direction. Walking the smoker past the edges and seams again they found all the places the room leaked. I was very surprised at how many places the room leaked. But this let them seal everything up to meet a higher level of cleanliness.
Maybe doing something like this in your paint booth might be of use.

I didn't see you mention pollen, mold, mildew, and all the plant generated airborne debris. The higher humidity will actually help lift that all up into the air and keep in suspension. That's one reason why dry places like Southern California have better and more consistent paint jobs than humid places like here in Texas.

Looking forward to seeing some of your painted successes!
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post #426 of 485 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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Hi,

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, that would be totally impossible in a small and dirty Mechanical Workshop like mine, Paint Booth it is not, and it is not big enough for a dedicated Paint Booth to be built inside.

There are plenty pic's of my Paintwork learning curve in this thread start at Page 19 post numbers 361, 362, 366, 369, 370, 376, 382, 383, 393, 412 & 424

#412 are the C Class Panels, and #424 the S Class bits, these are straight off the Gun, no polishing and messing with using my latest learned techniques, (called experience I guess), and the Extract Fan and Devilbiss Clear Gun

Night and day compared to all the messing around I had flatting and polishing to get the Trunk, Roof test piece, and Right Doors looking good

I have got pretty good and repeatable results now, and the odd few dust nibs I do get are all but invisible once flatted and polished.

My latest efforts since installing the Extract Fan have been good enough to bolt straight on the Cars without any polishing, just the odd one or 2 nibs that can be flatted and polished out next Summer

The Fender and Sideskirt on Mels C Class look perfect, as do the Sideskirts for the S Class, without the extra time flatting and polishing I had to do on the Trunk Lid and the 2 Right Doors

These successes since fitting the extract Fan confirmed my suspicion that the particles were airborne and clinging to the lingering overspray, which settles on a freshly painted panel.

I now apply the Clear coat, and as soon as it's applied on goes the big fan, which is above panel level, and out goes the overspray and clinging dust ................. Sorted

The only other problem I had was "orange peely" Clear Coat which needed a lot of time consuming flatting and polishing, and that was caused by my being over cautious and applying time between coats was too long, and also too many coats.

I now give my panels 3 good Clear Coats, with 10 - 15 minutes between coats, depending upon temperature, and it works a treat

Devilbiss Gun purely for clear coats also helped.

It's about the best I'll get now without building a (much) bigger Workshop, with dedicated Spray Booth.

Remember, this is a 17 year old S Class, it will look really good when all Panels are finished and some flatting polishing done

I'm not and never will be a "Custom Show Winning Painter" but I do now have the skills and equipment to make a well above average job of my Cars as and when Paintwork is required

I'm hoping I may get the Front Bumper done this weekend

Cheers for now, Dave

Last edited by Dave2302; 11-24-2018 at 02:57 AM.
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post #427 of 485 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 11:51 AM
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Care and workmanship can make up for a lot of short-comings in work areas...
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post #428 of 485 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 04:24 PM
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I now give my panels 3 good Clear Coats, with 10 - 15 minutes between coats, depending upon temperature, and it works a treat

Should have more like 6 - 8 quick clear coats no more than 10 mins apart.

My $ 0.02 worth, but you seem to be happy with less.
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post #429 of 485 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
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Hi,

I listened to what you said here first time about more coats

I agreed back then, and I was always of that opinion, until I found out that was why I was getting Orange Peel etc after the first 3 Coats ............................

It would seem that Modern 2K Clear Coats are designed to only be coated 3 times, Expert Painters and Manufacturers are now saying DO NOT put more than 3 wet coats on.

Any more starts to "mess you about", I won't say reaction, because that isn't it, but as the Manufacturers and Pro Painters describe it, it is to do with the Chemical Reaction that makes the 2K product "go off" ..........................
Basically any more than 3 Coats and the 4th 5th Coat etc is then "cracking off" before it has flowed out flat, which is due to the Coats underneath are hardening

I am now doing as they advise, and that, together with the Devilbiss Gun and the Extract Fan now means I am getting very professional and repeatable results.

Even the odd dust nib looks awful at first, then after a few days they are all but gone, and a quick wet 2000 grit and Polish and you need a magnifying glass to see it

This modern Clear Coat although "Touch Dry" settles out for ages, it really looks better as the days go by, even those original Orange Peely Right Doors, I wet flatted the Front one and polished, to see how / if it would come up any good....................
It has, and it looked fine, wanted another go with finer polish, but still more than OK.
I left the back one to do when Car is finished, but over a couple of weeks that has since improved to the point it will need less wet flatting work now

If using a Low Bake Oven, like 60 celsius, it gets that Paintwork harder much quicker, in fact you even need to use slower hardner, but for us guys painting at 18 - 40c you have to just leave it alone for a couple of weeks before messing with it. That translates to the better the finish, the less work will be needed after a week, and even less will be needed after a fortnight etc

Paintwork is indeed an art, and I am in awe of these Guys who produce show winning Candys, Iridescents etc, but I'm also quietly confident now that I can produce a result that is better than the Bodyshops round here, I see their work every day when working on Customers Cars

Cheers Dave

Last edited by Dave2302; 11-25-2018 at 02:10 AM.
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post #430 of 485 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 08:09 AM
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For those of you doing the painting, have any of you tried applying ceramic coating to any of your finished paint work? I would be interested to see what your results were if you have.
I can turn nuts and bolts all day long, but when it comes to paint and body work, I've learned it's just not my talent. So I tip my hat in applause to you and the others who have trained themselves and developed their inner artisan to bring more shiny things into our world. 'Cause we certainly do love shiny metal things!
....
Regarding my previous commentary on smoke testing, it's been a very long time since having perused your thread and had missed you weren't painting in a booth, but instead an open shop. That's on me for not fully reading before replying. ;-)
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