High milage 722.6 wear questions (MAVA my lord and savior?!) - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-09-2018, 07:49 PM
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You know you can PM me. Let me Digest this. I'm in the middle of few others

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Rossafuss View Post
Here's the results of the adaptation values in STAR!
according to STAR, "if the filling time and shift time are at the adaptation limit, the adaptation values of further gearshifts may be increased."
"If the adaptation values are reached, this indicates a fault in a hydraulic shift element."

"If the filling pressure adaptation values limit is in positive display range, there is damage in the automatic transmission."
Lets get the theory straight Not really theory, but practice in using this info from STAR which is beneficial from outside the transmission.

Any positive number is "wear percentage". When the transmission is new(made well, or gaped correctly at the friction packs) the wear value when new will be "0". As the transmission accumulated mileage increases if you are lead foot driver. The increases at a faster rate. The cap is "15" which is very wide, but the critical clutch packs are K3 and B1. Now, B1 is reading negative. i have no clue why, but every 722.6 I have opened B1 has a large gap in the frictions-meaning wear of friction material. This is normal of any 722.6 transmission... B1 is for the early gears, and K3 is for mid to late gears, but K3 will start to grind away the inside of the K3 housing with excessive wear, and that I have seen a few times... Here is something on it:

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...-worn-out.html

What I would do in your case

A) I would pull the valvebody down, and see how malleable the o-rings are on the shift solenoids and torque converter(TC) solenoid. I know the TC solenoid will be brittle hard, but the others I have no clue, and they must fit a little tight not just fall in the hole, and those o-rings Mercedes DOES NOT SELL THEM .

B)I would lift out the black regulation solenoids out and clean out the screen filters, or replace them(Mercedes sells the screen filters). See the pictures from this post...

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...ml#post9558858

C) My guess is your regulation solenoids(The black ones) are getting tired too, and they are about $250 each , yet in your shoes. I would find a late model +2000 722.6 car(any S, SL, C, CL, etc...) at the junk yard, and buy that used valve body with solenoids, and that may set you back $100.00 or less. Swap the whole thing out...

https://www.lkqpickyourpart.com/locations/

Row52 | Search Results

The used valve body may be worth your gamble...

D) Do inspect the conductor plate speed sensors with a magnifier for hairline cracks that the naked-eye cannot see as you may be on the onset of a worn-out conductor plate too..

E) Check your shifter bushings too...

I would do that first over anything of replacing/rebuilding

Martin
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Last edited by MAVA; 06-10-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 04:43 AM Thread Starter
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This is why I didn't just PM, this information is much more valueable in the open, especially since these transmissions are so widely used in all MB Platforms of the era.

I was definitely planning on "rebuilding" the valve body before I even thought about pulling the entire transmission.
As for the solenoids, what about these EBAY sellers that sell 'remanufactured' genuine OEM solenoids? Like this seller for instance, hes out of Texas, 99.6% positive feedback, they're guaranteed to work, come with a 1 year warrenty, and you get a tasty looking set of 6 for $68. My guess is that he's just pulling them from junkyard valvebodys, testing them, and then reselling.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-722-6...anner=1&_rdt=1

As for those O-rings, are they a fairly common metric size? If not, does anyone have dimensions or a possible aftermarket source?

Lastly, if I'm going to be digging into the valve body, do you think it would be worthwhile to remove and inspect all the springs, pressure regulators, end plugs for play? I can get a Sonnax valvebodys rebuild kit like below, or do you think it's not needed, as that would cause other shifting issues?

https://www.ebay.com/p/Zf6hp21-Trans...59b94fffb28d2&



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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 08:37 PM
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I meant that "can you comment on my post?". I do not go trolling onto other forums for fun. I personally do not like to have "fix-it and repair-it" one on ones as I'm busy like everyone one else. I will answer as I can....

On the solenoids, you want some from +2000 cars. something with not to many miles as heat kills everything, and in a hot state(like Texas) one can say the solenoid(s) are more tired than coming from the East Coast... You do not want some 90's solenoids as those will just will be really tired.. For $70 it is good deal.

With these solenoids at face value they will always "Measure well" electrically with a meter(the ohms), but the real test is oil in hot conditions. I seen these fail under load where the TCM will never register open or shorted conditions, but they fail due to the magnetic field collapsing due to heat, and heat changes the magnetic saturation curves, and with time it will collapse(not work). Big problem with rear-earth magnetic motors (or any motor with magnets). The curie-temperature goes up to the point, and the magnetic field disappears( our case the solenoid fails ). Same reason you want your "Hybrid" or "Electric car" with an induction motor not a permanent magnet motor for that same reason. I believe one American car company was making permanent magnet motor for one of its hybrid cars(all I can see Economic Obsolescence ).

The o-rings. In my second link you can see the baggie of solenoid o-rings in one of the pictures.Those o-rings came from 722.6 rebuild seal kit which contains all the seals for a 722.6. The kit is like $130.. I bet you can size up the o-rings, and find them online like this guy did for his solenoids-post 13:

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...l#post16973138

You could open your valvebody, but I think it is just wiser to get any +2000 junk valve body with the solenoids for less than $100. At $400 or so you can get a rebuilt from Mercedes, but I would not go that route yet. A Sonnax rebuilt is like $1200 with updates.

MB Valve Bodies Mercedes transmission parts

The Zf link is not the same for the 722.6. It is a whole different beast...

Here is the Sonnax info:

https://www.sonnax.com/units/211-722-6

Click on the yellow radio button called "Valve Body Layout"

I have bought from these guys:

Mercedes transmission parts,TransmissionpartsUSA.com

Martin
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 10:57 AM
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Following with increased enthusiasm... Question: Was this transmission used in any vehicles besides MB's? I seem to recall a video on YT where a transmission tech was tearing down a early production Chrysler model 300 & it having a 722-6 variant I think. If same, would certainly increase salvage yard prospect pool for parts like valve body, solenoids, & control units.


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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Yes it was. Chrysler used it in a few applications. They called it the "NAG-1".
That was my next question.... Are the valve bodys between Chrysler nag-1's and the MB 722.6 interchangeable? I can find oe chrystler application valve bodys cheaper than MB, and they tend to have lower milage as well.

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 05:40 AM Thread Starter
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This is not a super urgent issue for me, I'm planning on putting a lift in the barn next month, and that would be super handy for this job. When I get to that point, I think the first thing I'm going to is just drop the valve body, teardown and inspect everything, clean and reinstall with fresh oil. I have a feeling with all these miles accumulated, that those solenoid screens are going to be plugged and O-rings are going to be shot. So I'll start there. I'll report back in this thread once that's done.

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSDCamperVan View Post
Following with increased enthusiasm... Question: Was this transmission used in any vehicles besides MB's? I seem to recall a video on YT where a transmission tech was tearing down a early production Chrysler model 300 & it having a 722-6 variant I think. If same, would certainly increase salvage yard prospect pool for parts like valve body, solenoids, & control units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossafuss View Post
Yes it was. Chrysler used it in a few applications. They called it the "NAG-1".
That was my next question.... Are the valve bodys between Chrysler nag-1's and the MB 722.6 interchangeable? I can find oe chrystler application valve bodys cheaper than MB, and they tend to have lower milage as well.

The case is different on a "Chrysler 722.6", but the two-seater Crossfire is a W210 facelift E-Class, so it has all identical parts as a W210-Mercedes engine(M112), 722.6(second gen trans), suspension parts are identical, and differential. All those parts will fit a W210, or the early W211's for engine and transmission.

The jeep commander / Dodge Charger and Challenger have 722.6, but the case is different, and something mechanical is different on the valve body because of the different case. The oil pans are not even close. The internals of the 722.6 of a Chrysler are the same as a Benz.

I would just find MB cars. ANY MB +2000 S,C, E,CL, SLK, and M with a TOUCH-Shift Shifter car.

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Rossafuss View Post
I'm planning on putting a lift in the barn next month, and that would be super handy for this job.

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Wow, your wife must be a saint to let you do this! Wish I lived closer, we could become BFF!

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 06-14-2018, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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She drives a Benz like the rest of the family. I now have 6 benzes to keep up on maintence with.
if she wants to keep her CLK, a lift is going in the barn.

Plus I'm doing all the work myself, so it's significantly cheaper.

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