Bad EIS? Old key cranks car, but won't start, new key gives "remove key" - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Bad EIS? Old key cranks car, but won't start, new key gives "remove key"

This is now my third post here regarding the same car, and I'm just about ready to sell the dang thing. At first, my car would not start. Steering wheel unlocks, nothing. So I myself replaced the shifter, which now allowed my dash to read what gear I'm in, and crank the car. Steering wheel unlocks, pressure and fuel coming from the fuel pump to the engine as it should, and everything in the dash is looking good. Also has a brand new battery. The weird thing is, I can crank the car 3 times, it cranks for anywhere from 3 to 15 seconds if I'm pumping the gas pedal. After these 3 tries, the battery needs to be unplugged and replugged, then I get 3 more cranks.

Under recommendation from my mechanic at the local MB dealership, I purchased a new key as he said this will be the most economical step forward, and could very well solve my issues. New key comes, no dice. With the new key, it unlocks and locks the car just fine. It was already programmed by the dealership by the time I got up there (the car is sitting in the back lot, I used to work there in sales). The old key still functions as described above, but the new key immediately says "remove key" when I plug it in, and does not turn in the ignition. Also, for the first time today I noticed the old key also says to remove key, but that message goes away as soon as I begin to turn it (I forgot to check if the steering wheel unlocks).

Can anyone help me out and point me in the right direction here? I'm assuming the EIS needs to be repaired/replaced, which the dealership offered for over $1k to do, and my mechanic says he knows a company that'll repair it for much cheaper. I also saw some vendors on ebay and other sites offering the repair for $350, but I'd want to know the efficacy and success rate of such repairs before spending anymore on the car. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 05:02 PM
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It sounds like you're cranking this w210 to no end to get it to turn over?
Have you scanned it? No saved codes to post?

Anything you haven't told us in this summary of yours?

I can't believe the stealership indie told you this without any other suggestions....
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 05:07 PM
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Hello

First, you need to provide model year and model of your car.

If the old key turns in the ignition (obviously unlocks the steering wheel), the key is fine.

If the car cranks, the authorization check is fine.

Have you tried the Crankcase position sensor change ?


The crank is tip start. That means it does not matter that you hold the key, it will try to reach correct rpm and see that the car starts and then stops cranking.

Are you sure that your starter is good enough ? Battery may be new but the ground and power connections may be corroded.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Hello

First, you need to provide model year and model of your car.

If the old key turns in the ignition (obviously unlocks the steering wheel), the key is fine.

If the car cranks, the authorization check is fine.

Have you tried the Crankcase position sensor change ?


The crank is tip start. That means it does not matter that you hold the key, it will try to reach correct rpm and see that the car starts and then stops cranking.

Are you sure that your starter is good enough ? Battery may be new but the ground and power connections may be corroded.
Sorry, it is a 2001 E320 W210.

I have not changed the Crankcase position sensor. Is that something a non mechanic like myself could check or replace?

Also, I have not looked much into the starter since the car was cranking. I'm assuming this is something I could check with a multimeter, to read the voltage coming from the starter?
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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It sounds like you're cranking this w210 to no end to get it to turn over?
Have you scanned it? No saved codes to post?

Anything you haven't told us in this summary of yours?

I can't believe the stealership indie told you this without any other suggestions....
Yes I think the dealership has been very unhelpful here. There is nothing I haven't mentioned as far as I know of, I am by no means a car guy but I do work on computers so I guess I have a good sense of how a machine's parts should work together if that's worth anything. As far as the cranking, yes it cranks and reallllly sounds as if it should be good to go, but to no avail. It does this 3 times without fail, then stops cranking at all. I reseat the battery terminal, and the cycle continues.

I was told that the car was scanned with nothing to show, but I really don't believe they actually scanned it at all. From my basic little $20 OBD reader it shows no errors, but of course that has nothing to do with what the 38 pin port would show me.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by spenco100 View Post
Sorry, it is a 2001 E320 W210.

I have not changed the Crankcase position sensor. Is that something a non mechanic like myself could check or replace?

Also, I have not looked much into the starter since the car was cranking. I'm assuming this is something I could check with a multimeter, to read the voltage coming from the starter?
You could have a look at this.

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w21...tructions.html

and these

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w21...ensor-pre.html

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/2177959-post23.html

The CPS sends impulses to the engine computer, basically it is a pick up coil.

You could remove the connector and measure the resistance between the two pins of the CPS connector. It should be about 600 to 1000 Ohms ( ballpark). It should not be open. You cannot really test the impulses without a scope but an indie can.

You can connect your $20 scanner and watch the engine rpm as you crank. If the CPS is alive, you should see some rpm change.

You need to check the starter visually to see if the connections and strap is in good shape. You or someone need to lift the car to see it after removal of the belly pan.

I am surprised that the indie did not check the engine controller data with his scanner. Typically, it tells you why the start is abandoned.

You have already confirmed that the fuel rail has fuel with proper pressure (measured at the top left schrader valve). If you have fuel pressure, and the fuel injectors get activated, it makes life easier to isolate the problem.

Also check fuses on the K40 relay under the cover (4 bolts) at the passenger side under the hood. Sometimes one of the fuses blow and cause start issues.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 08:59 PM
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What does your old and new key look like?

If its the 1st gen key, they act differently than the newer gen 4 key.

Yes sounds like bad EIS from here, but more information would be helpful.

Depending on your location, you could try to find someone who can clone over the EIS to another used EIS, that way everything will work...including the old/new keys.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by spenco100 View Post
Yes I think the dealership has been very unhelpful here. There is nothing I haven't mentioned as far as I know of, I am by no means a car guy but I do work on computers so I guess I have a good sense of how a machine's parts should work together if that's worth anything. As far as the cranking, yes it cranks and reallllly sounds as if it should be good to go, but to no avail. It does this 3 times without fail, then stops cranking at all. I reseat the battery terminal, and the cycle continues.

I was told that the car was scanned with nothing to show, but I really don't believe they actually scanned it at all. From my basic little $20 OBD reader it shows no errors, but of course that has nothing to do with what the 38 pin port would show me.
Follow mrboca and Deplore's suggestions.

Since you dont have a reasonable scanner, (borrow one?),

Another simple option to test your cps - spark plug 'spark test' but be careful when you do this (have friend crank it up while you look for a spark) with the spare spark plug placed into the plug wire for say, cylinder 2, on the metal engine block for a visual.
Used this method in my earlier days.

Listen for the fuel pump...
Can also listen for the fuel pump if it whines up when you turn your car ignition to the position 2 (pump is located under the car back seat drivers side in front of the rear wheel under a plastic cover alongside the fuel filter) Basic audio test for the fuel pump.
If you do end up changing this, replace the fuel filter too since your down under.

EDIT:
CPS is at the back of the engine block - you can do it yourself - lots of DIY videos on this.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 01:59 AM
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Indeed you should find a way to do a deep scan and test. With a good scanner they can test drive authorization, immobilizer state (active/inactive) and other faults.

Does it display 'start error'?

Sounds a little like the EIS/steering lock issue seen in w204/x204, only those don't even crank but you see the remove key message once you insert the key.




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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 05:25 AM
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If the original key still cranks the engine, forget the new key for a while. It probably needs a "teach-in".

Below is the guided test for the DAS 3 (drive authorization system). With the original key, the status seems to be the box in the bottom left. Any indie with the STAR DAS should be able to check this out.
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File Type: pdf DAS3.pdf (28.5 KB, 9 views)
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