2002 MB E320 - Another Tranny Issue - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #1 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-28-2013, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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2002 MB E320 - Another Tranny Issue

Car - 2002 MB E320
Mileage - 98k miles
Location - GA
Length of ownership - Quite a while

I have been a long time lurker on this forum but never registered as a member till lately since I frequent more the 2JZ forums like CL and SF having cars with those power plants. I use the MB as my daily driver and put around 700 miles a month. Never had problems with it except once that was more than 2 years ago when my battery was failing on one cold winter morning and the transmission went into a limp mode. After buying a new battery , instead of getting the error code reset by the dealership for which they wanted $250 , decided to get the multiplexer and carsoft 7.4 and reset it myself and car ran top notch since then.

Last week , all of a sudden around 5 miles away from home , the car went into limp mode and then all of a sudden after another 3 miles it won't move .. just free reving ..I manage to put it aside. I had the check engine light . I had my ODBII scanner in the trunk so I was able to get the error codes .. P0730 and P0715. I did reset them. CEL went off . I was able to drive back home. Once I reached home , I got my carsoft multiplexer and I didn't get any error codes .

I probably spent 100 hours in the last few weeks reading the stickies and tranny problems on this W210 E-Class forum. I even sent messages to some very active forum members who had tranny issues and I was adviced to start a thread so other people may learn from the experience so here I am .

The problem :

From a cold start , the car would move in all the gears ... but as soon as it warms up , maybe after 10 minutes , it wont move an inch.. just free revs .
If you shut it down , let it cool down and then start it up , you will be able to move again till it warms up again.

What have been done so far :

-Fluid level had been check while it is cold (25C) and at normal operating temperature and is on the right level with the dip stick I just got. Just like I said my bottom pan is clean and no fluid leaks .

- Repeatedly tried reading with ODBII scanner and Multiplexer/Carsoft 7.4 a couple of times. I don't get any error codes at all now from the Engine and Tranny module .




Inspected the EGS (TCM) ports and it is bone dry.




- Removed and inspected the Transmission connector end of harness and the actual connector held by a 7mm bolt on the passenger front side of the tranny and they are both dry . The bottom of my transmission is clean of any fluid . I just forgot to take pictures when the car was on jack stands.

Now I am at a lost . I want to make sure that if I change the Electric Kit (conductor plate) since I initially got the P0715 code on the ODBII scanner, that it is really the problem so I currently am doing more research here and any advise will be greatly appreciated. Why I initially had that P0730 code I still don't know. I have read some members replacing the conductor plate and was just temporary joy for them and for some it resolved their issues. It goes without saying , once I delve into that conductor plate , I will change fluid, gasket , filter . So whatever you guys can advice will be appreciated. I love this car with its comfortable ride and I hope this problem wouldn't be an excuse for me to do a 2jzgte swap and be a sleeper since I am more familiar with those power plants having a Supra MKIV and Lexus SC with the 2jzgte making quite a good amount of power . ooops, I know some of you would flame me for that idea . I have seen one on supraforums and who is a member here too.

Please take note -> When the car is warmed up , I am not in a limp mode , the car simply won't go anywhere. So I thought it can be the tranny fluid and filter since most likely those were never replaced. Once the fluid is heated up, it looses its viscosity and start having problem maybe , I don't know. Though I have read also that some people replacing those didn't resolve problem either.

I haven't dropped the tranny pan yet since I am doing more readings and research. I don't really need the car right now so I want to make sure I am going in the right direction before I start doing any disassembly.

A question , wouldn't I get an error code if my Torque Converter is bad ? I am asking since another member here whose symptoms are almost identical to mine (car won't move once warmed up.. it has to be shut down and cooled a bit) , after replacing the conductor plate didn't resolve his problem and at the end of the day he said it was a TC which had to be replaced. Next question is , if my problem is the torque converter , why will it even move for the first 5 to 10 minutes after start up ? At this point , I am leaning towards the fluid / filter issue .. .fluid thinning out once heated ... just a guess at this point. What puzzles me is I have no error codes .

Throw any ideas you want to share that I can look into so I can hit that nail on its head on the first strike . They will be greatly appreciated. Take it easy on me though .. I am new here and my very first post I am not a mechanic but just love to work on my cars and toys .. just a plain DIY joe ..THANKS !!!

Last edited by gerrb; 07-28-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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post #2 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-28-2013, 09:58 PM
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https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...ml#post4947370

Probably you already have but check out this thread.
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post #3 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 09:53 AM
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No problem what cars you drive. I'm just not kind of person that insults people on what cars they drive-we all drive them for a reason-that is one's own reason....

The losing the gears after ten minutes is the quick indication of the fluid not ever replaced as the fluid cannot make it through the valve body. I'm assuming your fluid has red in it, and it is not green?

The no gears is a pressure problem, so my guess is the pressure regulating solenoid oscillates at about 1kiloHerts the oscillation varies in frequency based on demand. One loses this solenoid one has no gears .... Also pressure regulating valve could be stuck or the spring broken. This solenoid will not register a code because electrically it works-the coil of solenoid has not opened.

If the transmission has been run in very low fluid environment, the transmission oil pump could get damaged from metal metal rubbing, and the pump cannot develop pressure to hold the clutch packs(or valves in valve body). The 722.6 does not have pressure taps like the older hydraulic transmission, but one visually see the pressure from doing a fluid exchange on the transmission because it will take about twenty seconds at idle to push out two quarts of fluid through the top cooler line if no oil is coming out from the cooler line. The pump is gone....

The torque converter failures can happen, but they would woble-make noise-leak...

The conductor plate, I would replace it since one of your codes you are getting is a speed sensor. Now, technicly the car should be in limp mode, but you have multiple problem.

Here is what I would. Again assuming you fluid is okay and at the proper level?

I would drop the valve body, swap the over drive solenoid(you will lose 5th gear because the clutch plates at the torque converter will not pressurize-no biggie) with the pressure regulating solenoid. Inspect the speed sensors for cracks as they blister when they go bad. Also, remove the valve body plates one by one of the valve body to inspect pistons and springs(since you are there!!), but the one to pay attention is the pressure regulating one. The piston valve should slide out, and the spring should not be broken.

Here are some threads with some good data...

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...-symptoms.html

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...p-problem.html

On this thread with some great pictures of a ruptured speed sensor-post35 look at the whole thread!

722.6 Transmission Refresh. DIY and questions. - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

Let us know what you find, and post some pictures. I think the regulating solenoid went bad/speed sensor on conductor plate...

Best of luck,

Martin

Last edited by MAVA; 07-29-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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post #4 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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thanks a lot guys I appreciate the info... I will get back and report on this thread as soon as I dropped that pan and have inspected what is in there.

if this info will help .. this morning , first thing I did just to do more diagnostics , I started the car and did a half a mile test drive. I now have a whining/whistling noise that gets louder when I accelerate. It shifted in all the gears just fine when accelerating and decelerating. I brought it back home, let it idle till its warmed up. And once warmed up , car won't move an inch either in reverse or drive and will just rev up but didn't force it . I didn't get any CEL. Connected my multiplexer / carsoft and again no error codes on EGS and ME modules.

I firmly believe it is the original tranny fluid and filter so soon I will drop that pan as soon as I have the conductor plate , connector , fluid , gasket ,filter . Fluid level is good but it is somehow brown / dark in color so that would be a real suspect. Meanwhile I will go ahead and read those threads whose links have been provided and do more research to educate myself.

Again thanks ...

Last edited by gerrb; 07-29-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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post #5 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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I was curious what color was the fluid .. here you go, I siphoned a bit just to check its color. I guess it is really still the original fluid seeing that it is dark brown and really thin. Once I have all the part/materials I need then I will drop the pan ..

Don't mind the dirt on the container... I didn't see any dirt on the fluid for now .. my observation is it is simply dark brown. So maybe when the car warms up , the fluid isn't doing its job anymore . But since I am opening it , I guess it will be wise to replace those stuff that tends to break on this tranny which are the electric kits (plate) and transmission connector with its new o-rings. And I sure do hope that nothing major on the tranny .


Last edited by gerrb; 07-29-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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post #6 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 12:29 PM
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Gerrb,

The whine comes from three things:

A)Plugged Trans Filter

B) K2 Bearing shot and the planetary gears grinding away on the sun gear-Common on the pre early 99 722.6's-All later 722.6's have a larger K2 bearing, and problem is very rare...The whine will occur in all gears except 4th in most cases

C) I have not experienced this, and heard it talked about. The conductor plate speed sensor out of alignment, and a trick to get it in alignment with a piece of cardboard-I'll have to find this link for you..

One last thing, how is your battery? after the car has sat overnight is it 12v? Some have had some weird issues when the battery dips down...

Ground strap on transmission firm and tight? Chassis grounds nice and tight?

On my 02 E320,I plug and unplug the battery all the time- never had an issue with the transmission?

This is how I change the fluid on my E320-post 11:

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...ml#post5406702

Before doing any deep troubleshooting fluid and filter must be in good shape, and to proper level

You want to use Shell ATF 134:

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...atf-134-a.html

Martin
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post #7 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 12:41 PM
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I bought a beater W140 which has first generation(first generation 722.6's have a torque converter drain screw-Second Gen 722.6's do not) it run in all the gears okay for 20min. Then nothing...The car has 180kmiles and no one ever changed the fluid. The fluid was dark green like pea soup. Changed the fluid and filter. The fluid was changed by fluid exchange to get all of it out. The car ran like a top after that...

The case be true for you...

The fluid is thin but if your cooler has failed you get all kinds of wacky problems. Your car is too young to have the cooler fail. How is your coolant? drain it onto a clean bucket if okay pour it back in. Generally you will see the oil/water separation...


Martin
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post #8 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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I believe the cooler is intact , I have taken out the lower radiator hose actually and drained the coolant just to see if there is oil on it. I didn't see any trace of oil . Here is a sampling of the coolant I poured back in.



I do hope it is just clogged filter since most likely its the original tranny filter and fluid. I don't remember being ever charged by the dealership for any tranny service since I had it for a while now. And ironically after its 8th year I did away with the service warranty. But never had problem with it in the past 4 years since doing away with the warranty.

It's a 2002 so I hope it's not the K2 bearing you were saying. Ground straps are both firm and tight. Battery is two years old. But I will observe and do some measuring with the voltmeter. If it was battery related , shouldn't it trigger a fault code and registering in the Carsoft EGS module diagnostics just like I had that battery problem almost three years ago ?

So I guess it is better to change filter and fluid / gasket first and go from there. If I get you right , there is no need at this point to replace connector, plate (electric kit). As mentioned , that transmission connector on the tranny is clean and harness / plugs to TCM are also clean. In fact my tranny bottom and side is quite clean for a 100k mile car I would say which to me says no leaks .

Everything just happened suddenly one day , going limp mode then I reset using odbII scanner but never was I able to duplicate that limp mode / CEL again. And before that day , the car was sitting on my driveway for two weeks and was never used . And that day I decided to use it. And I wasn't even 7 miles away from home and started acting up. I have no problem at all starting the car. It fires right up with one click that's why I said battery should be good.

Just to confirm that I am seeing the tranny fluid color right , my wife just told me that it is dark brown too. It doesn't seem to smell like burned. It still has the normal tranny fluid smell I would say.

Last edited by gerrb; 07-29-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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post #9 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 02:25 PM
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Good, I hope you just need a fluid and filter change...

While the fluid is out of the pan, you could inspect the connector on the outside of the transmission for oil release, but you would have seen the oil wicked-up into the computer or leaks on the ground. The best time to inspect it is when all the fluid is out from the pan...

Here is thread on it..

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...sion-plug.html

It is wiser to take this in phases as you will be throwing money at your problem. Do the fluid change/filter see what happens? inspect one of the pressure regulation piston and spring-post3 pic7

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...tor-plate.html

I think you can do it with out dropping the valve body if you cannot remove that plate. Then do it when you drop the valve body to inspect the conductor plate

Then, if you continue to lose all the gears after it warms up, then I think the pressure regulation solenoid is bad, and you could inspect the conductor plate too.

Martin
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post #10 of 95 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you and I sure do hope it is just the fluid and filter issue. I will report back on this thread once I get into it and it might take a while since I am going out of town for a couple of weeks. I will follow your total fluid exchange method once I am ready to do it.

Once again everyone's help is greatly appreciated.
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