Cam Oilers and Sludge Removal - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Cam Oilers and Sludge Removal

I have recently started changing the cam oilers in my e420. It has been making several ticking noise that could be the result of cam oilers being broken. I knew the car had been abused and not maintenanced properly. When I asked the original owner (mother in law) how long they went between oil changes, I was floored by the answer "never has been changed". the car has 89,000 miles. When I took off the valve cover, the cams are completed surrounded by sludge and oil build up. Surprisingly, the plastic oilers were not broken or clogged with oil build up. My question is this, Can the oil pump be clogged and not allowing oil to be pumped up to the top of the motor? Also, what steps do i need to do to remove the oil build up in the cam area as well as through out the engine. Help!
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 11:12 AM
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In my experience, this is a complex issue. There are both feed and return passages that will need to be cleaned and you can't just go poking around in there and hope you don't inadvertently clog something.

Back when Methuselah was a teenager, or in my youth, you used to be able to get a "flushing oil", probably nothing more than mineral spirits. You drained your engine oil, put this stuff in, ran the engine long enough to get it up to temperature, drained out the flushing oil and replaced with motor oil. You followed this by running the engine under light load and changing the oil again.

The couple times I tried this, I wound up having to remove the sump and clean out the pan as well as running pipe cleaners through what oil galleries I could get to. Even so, the engines were never really right. Couple of burned rockers and pushrods, as well as intermittent wild swings in oil pressure. Probably should have dismantled the oil pump and flushed it as well as replacing the internal gears.

Best advise, and it isn't very nice, would be get out from under the car as quickly as you can. Trade it in.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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any other besides getting rid of it

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97e420sweet View Post
I have recently started changing the cam oilers in my e420. It has been making several ticking noise that could be the result of cam oilers being broken. I knew the car had been abused and not maintenanced properly. When I asked the original owner (mother in law) how long they went between oil changes, I was floored by the answer "never has been changed". the car has 89,000 miles. When I took off the valve cover, the cams are completed surrounded by sludge and oil build up. Surprisingly, the plastic oilers were not broken or clogged with oil build up. My question is this, Can the oil pump be clogged and not allowing oil to be pumped up to the top of the motor? Also, what steps do i need to do to remove the oil build up in the cam area as well as through out the engine. Help!
I know I could just sale it but I want to fix it!
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 04:19 PM
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Old remedy is add a bottle of transmission fluid and run the engine for few minutes before draining it all.
ATF has huge dose of detergents that help to dissolve the oil residue.
I wouldn't do anything more than that. Do one flush with ATF and plan next change at 3 or 5 thousand, than go to regular intervals. Maybe plan filter change 1/2 thru the intervals.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 06:16 PM
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I have dealt with this on a couple of engines on a couple MB's of two of my friend's..

I normally do not go in for "snake oil" cures - but after a recommendation from a mechanic I respect, I used Auto-RX (16 oz required for our 8.5qt sumps = equal to 1 1/2 bottles).

The upside on the application is for the cleaning cycle (2500 miles) you switch back for a cheap full dino (you save about $35 in oil costs there) but use total (2) filters in the process :

a) new filter, full dino oil change substuting 16-17 oz of Auto-RX for the last 16-17 oz of dino oil to make the full 8.5qts

b) change filter again at after 1250 miles, do not change oil

c) after another 1250 miles (total 2500 with Auto-RX added) change back to Mobil 1 European formula (important to get back to the right oil - since this oil pumps thru quick and has added phosphorus for anti-sludge.

d) change filter out after added 1500 miles (total 4K since Auto-RX)

e) then change oil/filter after another 1500.

GREAT sludge remover - anything more harsh than this can really-really **** you up - there are some very small oil passages in the system than can get easily fully clooged by using something too harsh.

This type of sludging comes from using the wrong oil, and using the wrong filter - but the results of the Auto-RX treatment were GREAT (we did another tear down to make sure on both).

Auto-Rx Engine Cleaner

Last edited by Matt L; 01-11-2009 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Expletive deleted.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2009, 08:13 PM
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Here is the mercedes TSB on sludge. Unfortunetly I can't get the photo upload, here is the text.

It might be worth trying the Mercedes solution followed by the Auto RX

Gasoline Engine - Oil Sludging

Date: December 2003

Order No.: S-B-18.00/16a

Supersedes: S-B-18.00/16

Group: 18

Revision: Important notes added to Part C, Step 2, Part C Step 3, Part D, Step 1 when performing these repair steps.

SUBJECT:
OIL SLUDGING IN GASOLINE ENGINES

A. Symptoms of Engine Oil Sludging

B. Engine Oil Sludging Causes

C. Remedy for Minor Engine Oil Sludging

D. Remedy for Severe Engine Oil Sludging

E. Warranty/Goodwill Considerations






Note :Severe oil sludging is defined as caking of oil onto engine components, in bores and oil passages. Minor oil sludging is defined as when the engine oil starts to thicken but still flows. Please refer to Figure 1.

A. Symptoms of Engine Oil Sludging

^ Excessive engine oil consumption

^ White/blue engine smoke

^ Has an effect on the oil level indicator

^ Engine oil filter is clogged, engine oil has thickened to a jelly-like consistency

^ Oil sludge is visible when removing oil filter, engine valve covers, oil filler cap, cam positioning sensor.

B. Engine Oil Sludging Causes


The causes listed below may individually, or in combination lead to engine oil sludging:

1. Crankcase ventilation system is not functioning, or mechanically blocked openings, bores, passages in cylinder valve cover, cylinder head, crankcase etc. are mechanically blocked. Nonfunctioning crankcase ventilation increases the load of the engine oil due to organic nitrates. Thus, the risk of oil sludging increases.

2. All engine oil drain passages on the cylinder head and crankcase and all engine ventilation ducts are not open. Engine crankcase breather hoses might be kinked. All ventilation bores in the engine valve covers not open.

3. Engine oil being used does not meet the engine oil requirement list as noted in the Approved Service Products Book (MB Sheet 229.1, 229.3 or 229.5. Additives such as those with dirt carrying properties, acid neutralizing properties and the oxidation stability, along with the quality of the oil base stock, affect when and if oil sludging occurs. MB Sheet 229.1, 229.3 or 229.5 list the tested and approved engine oils which provide the best protection against sludge formation.

4. Oil sludging can occur after the use of special fuels or the addition of an oil additive. Please inform your customers not to use any special additives with the fuel or engine oil, see current issue of: "Factory Approved Service Products" book (S-0473-04B).

5. Engine oil change intervals are not observed, please observe engine oil and oil filter change intervals.

6. Fuel grade is not within the octane index of 91. If contaminated, then fuel octane is reduced, engine sludging may start even if approved engine oil is used.

7. Engine anti4reeze which leaks into the crankcase via an internal engine coolant leak such as leaky head gasket or casting porosity will cause the engine oil to form sludge within a short period of time. As a result, the crankcase ventilation system becomes clogged, then inoperative. Determine cause of the engine coolant leak and eliminate the cause of the coolant leak. Clean especially all engine components, as well as engine parts that have engine oil sludge present. If the condition re-occurs, it can be assumed that a casting is porous, for example: the engine crankcase, replace porous component.

C. Remedy for Minor Engine Oil Sludging
(see Figure 1, to identify Minor and Severe Engine Oil Sludging)

1. Change engine oil and filter, using only approved engine oils as indicated in current issue of: "Factory Approved Service Products" book (S-0473-04B).

2. After performing step 1. above, perform engine oil purging by operating the engine for 1 hour in Park.

Note uring engine purging, run the engine for 1 hour in "Park" position in a secured location outside the building.

3. Drain the engine oil after purging procedure above. If necessary, repeat purging above.

Note : It is possible to have a maximum of 3 oil and oil filter changes on the same day of the repair date and a possible 4th oil and oil filter change on or before 6000 miles after the day of the repair date.

4. Refill drained engine with engine oils as noted in current issue of: "Factory Approved Service Products" book (S-0473-04B), and change oil filter.

5. Perform the first engine oil and filter change after purging at approx. 6,000 miles or before, refill using only engine oils listed in current issue of: "Factory Approved Service Products" book (S-0473-04B).

D. Remedy for Severe Engine Oil Sludging
(see Figure 1, to identify Minor and Severe Engine Oil Sludging)

Note :Engines which display severe oil sludging, caking of oil onto engine components, in bores and oil passages, proceed as follows:

1. Disassemble engine and mechanically clean all bores, passages and engine components of any oil sludge or caked on oil residue.

Note :Perform cleaning by utilizing the hot tank cleansing system; other wise perform manual cleaning of the engine and it's components using parts cleaning solution; i.e.: soak all engine parts in cleaning solution for 1 hour. Remove oil sludge residue with parts cleaning brush and clear all oil circuit passages with compressed air.

2. Do not allow any hard oil sludge residue to enter the oil circuit, since the proper operation of the piston oil spray jets and hydraulic lifters, as an example, will be impaired.

3. Refill engine using only approved engine oils as listed in current issue of: "Factory Approved Service Products book (S-0473-04B), and change oil filter.

4. Perform next engine oil and oil filter change at approx. 6,000 miles, again refilling engine oil by using only the approved engine oils as indicated in current issue of: "Factory Approved Service Products" book (S0473-04B).


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 04:48 PM
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I personally would fill the whole engine up to the top to where not even one drop couldn't be put in with kerosene. Close the oil cap. Let it sit for a week. Drain after 1 week completely. Add 4 quarts of kerosene plus 4 quarts of oil and start the engine. Now just just let it idle until the temp starts to go up. While the temp is still not up to operating temp, stop and drain completely. Now put in 4 qts of tranny fluid and 4 qts of engine oil. Start the car plus a whole bottle of seafoam. Start the car, no gas just idle and let it get to operating temp. /keep it there for 10 minutes. then drain. Put 8 qts of mobile 1 0w40 and go off your way. At 3000 miles, put in another bottle of seafoam and drive about 20 miles on the highway, come back and drain. Change filter and put in new oil and go 5000 miles before putting in seafoam. Again, drive 20 miles. Change filter and oil. you are done.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cancer_Researcher View Post
I personally would fill the whole engine up to the top to where not even one drop couldn't be put in with kerosene. Close the oil cap. Let it sit for a week. Drain after 1 week completely. Add 4 quarts of kerosene plus 4 quarts of oil and start the engine. Now just just let it idle until the temp starts to go up. While the temp is still not up to operating temp, stop and drain completely. Now put in 4 qts of tranny fluid and 4 qts of engine oil. Start the car plus a whole bottle of seafoam. Start the car, no gas just idle and let it get to operating temp. /keep it there for 10 minutes. then drain. Put 8 qts of mobile 1 0w40 and go off your way. At 3000 miles, put in another bottle of seafoam and drive about 20 miles on the highway, come back and drain. Change filter and put in new oil and go 5000 miles before putting in seafoam. Again, drive 20 miles. Change filter and oil. you are done.
Have you ever actually done that on a 420? Sounds a bit hokey to me, aside from the flammable aspects of kerosene and the potential for gasket and seal damage, how you ever going to fill up the valve covers?

Personally I think I would start much more gently. You've already got the valve covers off, so carefully put lint-free rags into the return passages, then use a scraper to remove the worst of the sludge from on top of the heads. Put the valve covers back on and add a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil (don't overfill, suck some oil out first if you need to). Run it for a few hundred miles, then change the filter and oil, replacing the latter with a conventional quality motor oil known for it's detergent qualities. 500 miles later pull the oil filter and see what it looks like. If it's already badly fouled, replace it and run another can of Marvel through for 500 miles and change the oil/filter again.

At that point I'd probably increase the cycle to 1,000 miles and see how things are.

The only real alternative I see is a complete teardown, but that's a killer. And much of that you'd nearly have to do in order to follow all of the MB procedure, but nice of e-420 to post it up.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg




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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-12-2009, 06:30 PM
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engine swap or rebuild.

after 89k miles on the same oil (hard to believe), every single oil passage in that engine is damn near completely blocked. All the oil treatment in the world won't get that to an acceptable level and is likely to completely clog the oil pump pickup.

I'd like to see some pictures of this situation btw.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 01:35 AM
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one quart

of kerosene added to the crank case and idled only for a half hour and then drain the engine and install a new filter and spec oil.Repeat every 2500 miles for 1 year.It will solve the problem if it is possible to be solved.

89K miles,no oil change? Do they brush their teeth?


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