Single -or- Double Row Timing Chain? - Mercedes-Benz Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Single -or- Double Row Timing Chain?

I will be swapping an 88 2.3l auto transmission engine, with 117k on the clock, into my 86 manual 190e soon.

I just bought the complete clutch kit from Rock Auto for $165.00 shipped and am purchasing internal engine parts to exchange prior to install

Off the Russian site I downloaded the build sheet for the 88, but it didn't give a manufacture date.

The engine number on the build sheet is:102985 12 065118
If I read the numbers correctly, is this motor the single row Timing chain model? I had read that sometime in 1988 production, the 2.3l went to a double row timing chain set up. Are their any other internal/external differences beside the belt tensioning assembly, I should be aware of?

I am currently working out of state, and would like to purchase Timing chain and related tensioning assembly, lower seals & gaskets kit, and oil pump assembly to replace while the donor engine is on the engine stand, waiting for replacement.

Again, I am amazed at the quality and intellegent design of the 190 and how cheap parts are for it.

Any feedback would be appreciated

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:03 AM
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the 88 motor and trans will not work with the 86 190es even tho they are 2.3s.. the swap will work but imo more work then you want to get into. you need to swap teh engine harness and all the ignition components.. the crank sensor is a different design i tried this but the other way around 85-86 motor into an 87 and no go. it will have a hard time starting and will be super retarded or advance forgot which but its a pita. to see if its a single row or double row open the oil cap and look inside...


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1993 MB 190E 2.3 105k- its alive..
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:50 AM
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https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201...-part-2-a.html
https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201...t-exhaust.html

more on the story in my old threads i started on page 7..


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1993 MB 190E 2.3 105k- its alive..
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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I had enquired about this in the past, and was told that the engines should swap, but to use the distributer from the 86 to make it run correctly.

I would use the flywheel from the 86 to make the 88 engine mate up with the 5 speed tranny.

In looking at the two, the engines look identical, infact the Bosch throttle body/mixing box had the same ID tag on it when swapping parts to fix a fuel related problem.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 05:58 PM
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thats exactly what i did used the 87 distro. does not work, caused nothing but troubles. now that i look back at it it was the worse idea ever caused me nothing but grief and ignition issues. the only way this will work is to swap the harness too. learn from my mistakes... i was so pissed at the car i almost sold it a few times..


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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-14-2009, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Jippi

I found this pearl of wisdom on the ozbenz.com site so there is still hope for the swap:

Guys,

Whilst it is getting a bit off topic, the MB models prior to 1986 (introduction of ULP in Oz) did not use EZL ignition and therefore did not have either a fixed or selectable R16 ignition timing programming resistor. They simply used breakerless electronic ignition where the ignition advance curve was determined by the centrifugal and vacuum advance mechanism in the distributor. Obviously without ULP they also did not have catalytic convertors or O2 (lambda) sensor.

From 1986 the ignition system went to EZL which meant the distributor was nothing more than the rotor and cap to send the high voltage to the appropriate spark plugs (and with the introduction of ULP, exhaust catalysts and O2 sensors were added). The timing signal came from the inductive pickup near the flywheel and the advance curve was determined by the EZL module. The R16 programming resistor was a single fixed resistor in some markets (such as AUS and USA) but was the selector as shown above in European markets where the car could be driven through countries with fuels of significantly differing octane ratings. If the selector is marked EZL-KAT it is a catalyst equipped car. If it is marked EZL-RUF or EZL-ECE it is not catalyst equipped. The change to EZL ignition also coincided with the change from purely mechanical K-Jetronic injection to KE-Jetronic which added an ECU to fine tune the fuel mixture.

Sorry for the off topic discussion. It just seemed appropriate to mention it here since since the discussion was heading this way.

Greg

So with some imagination, this should fly -- The 86 has EZL ignition.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 06:26 AM
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Hi! The swap will work fine, but off course you must sort out the harness and ignition stuff.
So it is not the easy way, as some "brain work" is needed
My friend with an -87 230TE/W124 swapped the motor/tranny from my -86 230TE/W124.
After swappine he had to take out the tranny and swap back the flywheel from the 87 engine, an off course the sensor/pick up on the flywheel cover allso..
Not sure how mutch else from the harness he had to swap back, but both engines were 2.3's so everything matched an was interchangeable.
Good luck!
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:22 AM
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like i said in order for it to work you need to SWAP THE ENTIRE WIRING HARNESS AND IGNITION SYSTEM FROM THE 88.....the 86 motor i had had the crank sensor on the distro. the 87 had it on the flywheel.


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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:41 AM
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ozbenz is a au site. the cutoff for the different systems are different between europe and NAM cars.. ezl started in 87 in the NAM cars not 86, 84-86 cars did not use ezl 87-93 use EZL. when i did my 87 i used the same site to justify to my self that the swap will work...but it doesnt..


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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-2009, 06:30 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice gents -- I am working on the road, and upon ariving home, I'll check out the 86 driver, and the 88 donor differences.

Both cars have ECUs -- KE Jetronic Fuel injection, so I'll check out both of my antique Mitchell's service manuals for those years (the books that flat-rate mechanics used) to see what is entailed. Also these service books have great sections on engine electrical troubleshooting and decent wiring schematics -- without the Euro-speak that seems to envelope the W201 manual CD I had downloaded last year.

I have $850.00 in the 86, 170,000 mile, 5-speed driver and $400.00 in the 88 107,000mile Automatic donor. Since the 86 car is no longer a driver, it has become a project, and will canablize the the 88 donor - tag and bag everthing for future ventures. I have the time and patience, and have an electronics background to attempt the challenge.

I spent countless hours learning the KE Jetronic Fuel injection to troubleshoot a fuel problem, when the problem turned out to be the timing chain jumped a link.

The 86 5speed motor has a slight knock in it, so I really don't want to poor good money into a problem, and the donor runs as sweet as new. The donor has a couple of dents in every panel, and has been touched up ala spray cans, not worth fixing up. With faith, and a little imagination I should be able to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Any one else that wants to weigh in on this, all threads are welcome

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