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post #31 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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I'm in the process of doing a full sunroof remove, clean, lubricate and replace. As expected all the insulation had fallen off and was squashed in the back of the sunroof cavity.

Sunroof cover is still at the upholsterers.

Needs a new sunroof rubber outer seal, but that can wait.

New Continental Conticomfortcontact 6 for the front, used Dunlops removed off the S420 fitted to the rear on 18" Lorinser D93 that I repainted recently:
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Previous: MY97 CL600, MY92 600SEL, MY98 S420, MY96 S280 x2
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post #32 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Update for this beast: AC re-gassed after an evaporator & heater core replacement and I really thought that was the last thing to do however when re-installing the centre console tonight & testing the switches I find that the power windows & sunroof have completely given up. Admittedly they were sometimes sketchy before but never completely dead. All fuses fine & I replaced K24 relay to no avail. Also the seat controls only work with the front door open.

So a bit more to do yet.
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post #33 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe-Trojan View Post
Update for this beast: AC re-gassed after an evaporator & heater core replacement and I really thought that was the last thing to do however when re-installing the centre console tonight & testing the switches I find that the power windows & sunroof have completely given up. Admittedly they were sometimes sketchy before but never completely dead. All fuses fine & I replaced K24 relay to no avail. Also the seat controls only work with the front door open.

So a bit more to do yet.
You've probably fixed this by now, but yesterday I discovered something interesting.
First, my driver's side seat adjustments would only work with the ignition on. Thought it was the door switch, but no. They'd work if I had the passenger door open. After troubleshooting and starting at the wiring diagram, I realized I'd removed the seat belt buzzer to figure out how to substitute a chime for the buzzer. Put it back in, and the seats work normally. Who knew?!

Second, I was replacing the inner door panels, and when I got done, the courtesy light on both door panels didn't work, nor did the rear seat lights. Seat controls didn't work either, ignition off. The front roof panel lights did work with the door switches. Checked all the front fuses, and all good. Had a beer, and studied the wiring diagrams some more. Found out a REAR fuse, fuse 11 in my case, also is somehow involved. Found it blown, apparently from accidently shorting out the courtesy light connections in the door panel. Replaced it, and things work again. The fuse panel says it controls the rear seat lights, but no mention of the door lights or seat controls.

I'd love to find the Mercedes engineer who came up with this wiring and ask his rationale for controlling things in this manner. I'm finding more and more that electrical items in cars are interconnected and/or computer controlled seemingly because engineers CAN do it, not because the SHOULD or is logical to do it.

Bottomline, I guess, is just don't check the obvious. The seat controls and lights are so interconnected that even seemingly totally unrelated issues can stem from a common source.
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post #34 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Your points are much appreciated & come to think of it the SRS light now appears then goes away after a couple of minutes which it never did before, it used to go out quickly.

I havn't looked at it again yet. Yes the convenience module is supplied by 3x different fuses, all look fine, however I have not busted out the multimeter yet.

I'll swap in a known to be working convenience module from the S600 which is the same year model, same build month to be exact, check some grounds and go from there.

Previous: MY97 CL600, MY92 600SEL, MY98 S420, MY96 S280 x2
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post #35 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-14-2018, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Found it. The N57 convenience module blue/yellow wire B.16 lock signal is sketchy, marked with yellow tape in the pic.

Edit: and/or wire D2 (USA/ECE model recognition) had its individual female connector incorrectly seated in the plug & was not engaging the pin, it was just touching. All sorted now.

Time to button up the rest of the interior & book her in for a roadworthy test.



Edit 2: I spoke soon. This is turning into one of those "multiple issues with similar & overlapping symptoms" problems. The working N57 module from the S600 works sometimes, but not all the time. I think the original S500 module has one or more cracked solder joints as it's super flaky & moving various connectors has the internal relays clicking like mad, as with another old spare I have here.

Maybe an issue with wiring elsewhere on the car but I'm calling it quits for today. So close to having this car on the road but so far...
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Last edited by Joe-V12; 07-15-2018 at 12:57 AM.
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post #36 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-15-2018, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe-Trojan View Post
Found it. The N57 convenience module blue/yellow wire B.16 lock signal is sketchy, marked with yellow tape in the pic.

Edit: and/or wire D2 (USA/ECE model recognition) had its individual female connector incorrectly seated in the plug & was not engaging the pin, it was just touching. All sorted now.

Time to button up the rest of the interior & book her in for a roadworthy test.



Edit 2: I spoke soon. This is turning into one of those "multiple issues with similar & overlapping symptoms" problems. The working N57 module from the S600 works sometimes, but not all the time. I think the original S500 module has one or more cracked solder joints as it's super flaky & moving various connectors has the internal relays clicking like mad, as with another old spare I have here.

Maybe an issue with wiring elsewhere on the car but I'm calling it quits for today. So close to having this car on the road but so far...
Try opening it up and reflowing the solder on the connection of the pins to the printed circuit board. This YouTube video talks about something similar on a W126.

I had to reflow joints on a Jaguar engine computer once. Talk about a PITA. That particular ecu model was notorious for cracked joints. I spent literally months tracking down that problem, as there was no self test at all on it. I fixed it, but never trusted it. Swapped it out for a later model ecu that didn't have the problem.

What sends the signal to the blue/yellow wire? Maybe it has a bad connection.
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post #37 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-15-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jal1224 View Post
I'd love to find the Mercedes engineer who came up with this wiring and ask his rationale for controlling things in this manner. I'm finding more and more that electrical items in cars are interconnected and/or computer controlled seemingly because engineers CAN do it, not because the SHOULD or is logical to do it.

Bottomline, I guess, is just don't check the obvious. The seat controls and lights are so interconnected that even seemingly totally unrelated issues can stem from a common source.
Well be careful what you wish for

A) either more wires going everywhere, and the possibility of fixing your self.

B) All the new stuff with is power, ground, CAN-High, and CAN-low. Plus serialized to the car, and one needs "lock and key license" to buy the sensors/modules/switches. Meaning one cannot buy the part, but one has to have the part put in by a licensed shop with this "lock n key license".

The days of "buying aftermarket"/used/ for all the new cars is over as Mercedes is the one "cornering sales and service". What sold for $50 to $100 for a sensor is $500 from Mercedes plus installation labor...

All the knock, temperature sensors, CPS, and etc are SCN coded like ECU's.


Oh that tranny, limp mode on the electronic tranny(722.6) in a late W140 is like $500 USD(the part in the USA is about $100 to $200 aftermarket) or so. Limp on the 722.9 is like $1500 for the part, and another $1000 in labor or so, and Mercedes does NOT sell this part to any shop(They must have this Lock n Key license), and you cannot buy it either, so the MB dealer in most cases has to do the work as it needs to be programmed to your vin, and the drive software to the transmission must be downloaded to the $1500 part from the Mercedes site. Depending on the year of car the new $1500 plate may not work to the existing valve body on your car, so about another $1000 for a new valve body.

Got to pay to play-yea baby...

Enjoy your old cars because the new stuff is really disposable, or use-it until the warranty expires.

Martin

Last edited by MAVA; 07-15-2018 at 08:34 AM.
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post #38 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Found another individual pin connector not seated properly on some pretty important pin, I think I got it now...

Yeah newer cars are not designed to last. A business to survive needs to make cars that appeal to new car buyers, and it seems new car buyers do not give the slightest fuck about longevity, they just want the latest gimmicky trash for status.

Previous: MY97 CL600, MY92 600SEL, MY98 S420, MY96 S280 x2
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post #39 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 01:24 PM
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You are such a thorough mechanic I'm sure you've done this already, but I'll mention it for other readers anyway: My climate control dignostics (96 S500) indicated 2 bad temp sensors which disabled AC. I pulled the CC unit and checked the sensors behind the dash and they ohmed like I expected. When I connected the big connectors and checked I still had the erroneous results, but my thumb pressure on the connectors had "the internal relays clicking like mad" to use your words. After I pulled it back off and sprayed contact cleaner on all the pins it worked flawlessly for the rest of time I owned the car.
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post #40 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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I gotta admire someone who is willing to take on such a project. So many "enthusiasts" would run away from a vehicle that needs so many known issues addressed.

Good luck with the rebuild, Joe!
Finally got here ~25 months later and ticked everything off the list, some jobs needed doing some were preventative. I won't be buying a car sight unseen ever again but to be fair these late model S500 W140s are just so hard to come by in Australia, especially in a desired colour combination if you are picky, so I don't mind the effort put into this car.

Hit list:

engine oil & filter,
metal oilers with new o-rings,
cam cover gaskets,
engine mounts,
trans mount,
air filters,
trans oil, filter & pan gasket,
trans connector,
diff oil,
new thermostat & associated hoses,
AC evaporator,
receiver/drier,
heater core,
metal heater lines behind dash/firewall,
coolant flush & change,
blower motor & resistor,
alt reg,
acc belt,
Akebono brake pads all around,
brake fluid flush & change,
shocks,
front swaybar bushes,
steering idler arm bush,
rebuilt PS pump,
inner & outer tie rods/ball joints,
RHS upper control arm (used),
rear view mirror frames (used),
central locking airpump (used),
interior temp sensor fan (used),
headlight switch (used),
right rear window reg (used),
radiator fan had a piece missing, replaced (used),
shifter (used),
shifter bushes,
replaced & resprayed front bar (used),
8x coils swapped out for the later black colored coils (used),
headlights dismantled to clean lenses & reflectors,
sunroof dismantled to clean, adjust & lube,
oil filler cap,
wiper blades,
proper sized battery,
all doorcards removed to fix up the rattles from those tiny nuts coming loose!

Encore...

disposed of those W211 rims,
disposed of that big MB star grille and installed a genuine S600 grille (not that chinese copy version),
disposed of those crappy tail lights & swapped in the geuine set off my previous S420,
flaky elec widows now sorted,
swapped out the centre console black lid for a woodgrain lid.
Contintental stereo,
dark tints,
painted all brake callipers, shields & rotors black.

Still needs a sunroof cover, a 2nd key, paintless dent removal & a full respray but unless something crops up this car is ready for a roadworthy with a view to be my daily driver.

Previous: MY97 CL600, MY92 600SEL, MY98 S420, MY96 S280 x2
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