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post #11 of 171 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 07:04 PM
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Could It Be

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Originally Posted by abataineh View Post
I ordered plugs from MB dealer for my W210 and they were Champion plugs
Something about NJ? Ha, ha, ha...just kidding.
W210 and W201? <<scratching head>>

Decades ago(admittedly) I saw several instances where Champions, A/C Delco, and Autolite suffered from broken insulation. Apparently installers were cracking the insulation and as it got hot it broke?

Also, Bosch offered the removable copper/aluminum tops exposing the threads on the top of the plug which was the industry standard for the German wire/plug configuration.
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post #12 of 171 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 07:40 PM
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Yttrium

Ok, you fellas got me looking up this spark plug stuff.

Bosch F9DOC is the plug recommended for my 99 S420, M119.

It's a Yttrium plug.
There are Beru and Champions listed also. I'd didn't look them up for the Yttrium application.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttrium


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post #13 of 171 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 08:41 PM
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I was wrong about the plug change in '98 for M119. Change was to laser welded platinum electrode. Design principle was same as with iridium ... reduce electrode area for arc ignition while retaining longevity. It doesn't seem like Bosch grabbed on to iridium for consumer vehicle application, but they have a line of industrial engine plugs using iridium on both electrode & ground.

Interestingly enough iridium has melting point 1200 deg F higher than platinum. NGK was issued a patent for the basic idea of the iridium tipped electrode and/or ground electrode in 1988. I think the really dark art to the use of this matl is in the method of joining metals with widely differing melting temps.
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post #14 of 171 (permalink) Old 02-22-2016, 04:17 AM
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@LogicalPosition , The dealer didn't give me options to choose from. I told them i want to order plugs for my W201 and they gave me the plugs inside Mercedes logo box which had Champion plugs in it.
For my W140 S320 I ordered some plugs from Clark and it was Bosch plugs inside the MB packaging.
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post #15 of 171 (permalink) Old 02-27-2016, 04:17 PM
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As long as all ignition specialists are already on this topic...
I'd like to pick you brain a little:
I just replaced rorors and distributor caps and all spark plugs. Specified bosch plugs no resistors, as recommended. old plugs were ok, but a bit darker then they should be, looks like they were changed once over 60k. 2 plugs were not tight for some reason. I had slight hesitation on idle before and i still have it now

So, any ideas what may cause it? Engine is running fine on any rpm but idle, if ac is on hestitation is not there. It is very minor, you can hear slight miss every 30-40 sec.

Bosch spark plug wires are purchased and going in next... But still is it going to fix it? And if not what a hell is it? Engine sounds perfect pulls hard, no any other issues.

I did not check the gaps on spark plugs, but they come preset usually. At the time i did not know about increasing a gap to 1.0, is it worth trying?

Ah also, i drive and then stop, hesitation will not be there, as well as if i race the engine it will give me couple minutes of clean idle. If it sits ide for some time, then i can feell it, again very slight.

Last edited by Alter; 02-27-2016 at 04:26 PM.
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post #16 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalPosition View Post
Ok, you fellas got me looking up this spark plug stuff. Bosch F9DOC is the plug recommended for my 99 S420, M119. It's a Yttrium plug. There are Beru and Champions listed also. I'd didn't look them up for the Yttrium application.
Where are you looking this up? In the Mercedes/dealer EPC, or in Bosch catalog?



Quote:
Originally Posted by hamada128 View Post
@LogicalPosition , The dealer didn't give me options to choose from. I told them i want to order plugs for my W201 and they gave me the plugs inside Mercedes logo box which had Champion plugs in it.
For my W140 S320 I ordered some plugs from Clark and it was Bosch plugs inside the MB packaging.
Mercedes offers factory plugs from several different manufacturers, typically Bosch, Champion, and Beru. There are different part numbers for each but are all interchangeable. Depending on price and availability, you may receive any of the 3, unless you ask for a specific brand / part number.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter View Post
I had slight hesitation on idle before and i still have it now

I did not check the gaps on spark plugs, but they come preset usually. At the time i did not know about increasing a gap to 1.0, is it worth trying?
Yes. This is easy and free. See if there is any improvement with the gap at 1.0-1.1 mm.



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Originally Posted by Alter View Post
Bosch spark plug wires are purchased and going in next... But still is it going to fix it? And if not what a hell is it? Engine sounds perfect pulls hard, no any other issues.
It is very unlikely that new wires will fix it. However, you can measure the resistance of your old plug wire ends/boots. Spec is ~2000 ohms and if they are within about 20% of spec they are ok. If you find any that are very high (say, 5k-10k ohms, or higer) that could be part of your problem. Assuming your new M119 wire set is the type with orange plastic plug boots and light gray wire, be VERY careful laying the wires into the plastic X-tray. The gray insulation is fragile and tears easily. This won't affect performance if it tears, but you'll feel better if you don't damage them in the first place. The X-tray has numbers on the bottom which tell you how to route the wires, they should all fit neatly in place. But the aftermarket wire lengths probably won't match OE, so you'll need to get creative to make everything fit nicely...






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post #17 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 11:44 AM
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Nice and neat Dave
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post #18 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 11:48 AM
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Beautiful! !!
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post #19 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 02:38 PM
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Thank you for the suggestion and pictures!
Is there anything else which can cause the hesitation?
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post #20 of 171 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter View Post
Thank you for the suggestion and pictures!
Is there anything else which can cause the hesitation?
Do you have a hesitation under load, while accelerating? Or just the intermittent idle hiccup when warm, every 30 seconds or so? One other thing is the engine mounts... if they are not recent, they are probably toast.
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