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post #1 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Speaker install.

I purchased Morel 6.5 component speakers for the rear deck of my 90 420 SEL. I already have a new Alpine deck and alpine 445A mini amp running now.

When installing the rear speakers. Should I install the new speakers in factory plastic base? I assume thatís the better way. In that case, can I remove that plastic housing and install the speakers, then re install the factory housing? Iíll install the crossover in the trunk and run cables to speaker and tweeter from there.

Depending on the outcome, if all goes well and sound out back is drastically improved, I plan to buy the same speaker set for the front.
Can I install the woofer inside front doors with a crossover, but leave the dash speakers untouched for now ? So not using the Morel tweeters for the dash. Will the dash speakers still work or are they wired from the door speakers.

Many thanks !


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post #2 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tbilisi79 View Post
I purchased Morel 6.5 component speakers for the rear deck of my 90 420 SEL. I already have a new Alpine deck and alpine 445A mini amp running now.

When installing the rear speakers. Should I install the new speakers in factory plastic base? I assume thatís the better way. In that case, can I remove that plastic housing and install the speakers, then re install the factory housing? Iíll install the crossover in the trunk and run cables to speaker and tweeter from there.

Depending on the outcome, if all goes well and sound out back is drastically improved, I plan to buy the same speaker set for the front.
Can I install the woofer inside front doors with a crossover, but leave the dash speakers untouched for now ? So not using the Morel tweeters for the dash. Will the dash speakers still work or are they wired from the door speakers.

Many thanks !


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The 6.5" speakers should fit in the factory plastic housing, depending on the size of the magnet of the Morel speakers. Installing the crossover in the trunk is an easy option with short runs of wire to the rear speakers.

If the current speakers in your dash and front doors is the original Mercedes-Benz 10-speaker "Premium Sound" package, then the door speakers are midbass and the dash speakers provide midrange and high frequencies. There are crossover elements (resistors and capacitors) integrated in the OEM wiring to separate the frequencies.

You can fit 4" speakers in the dash locations and the higher-end coax ones have separate crossovers.

To keep it simple, I would suggest using a pair of 4" coax speakers in the dash and pull new wiring from your amplifier.

The door location of the midbass is terrible for sound anyway. It fires at your hips in the SE/SEL and at the ankles of the rear passengers in the SEC.
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post #3 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Speaker install.

Thanks.

For now I wanted to keep the dash speakers alone.

So do you think I can replace the front door speakers with Morel components for now ?

Iím avoiding running the cables from the doors/ crossovers to the dash. Not sure I ever want to. Or not yet .


So using the same component set up can I swap out just the door speakers ? Use new cross overs for that or just use whatever the factory system is sending to speakers in the doors ?

Thank you.


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post #4 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tbilisi79 View Post
Thanks.

For now I wanted to keep the dash speakers alone.

So do you think I can replace the front door speakers with Morel components for now ?

Iím avoiding running the cables from the doors/ crossovers to the dash. Not sure I ever want to. Or not yet .


So using the same component set up can I swap out just the door speakers ? Use new cross overs for that or just use whatever the factory system is sending to speakers in the doors ?

Thank you.


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Running new speaker cable to the doors is a bit of a hassle.

The easiest solution for you would be to run a new set of wires from your amplifier to new dash speakers.

Where is your amplifier located? If it is in the trunk, it's easy to run wire down the sides and up through the dash.

Regards,
Axel

1990 SEC, Arctic White w/gray interior, M119.960 326 Hp. engine from 1992 500 SL, 722.370 transmission from 500E (reinforced clutches), 2:82 Differential, Euro Headlamps, 1st Gear Start module, One-Touch Window module and Keyless Entry module all from BergWerks, Bilstein HD Shocks on front axle, H&R lowering springs front and rear, AMG 3-piece 17" rims, 8.5" in the front and 10" at the rear.


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post #5 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Speaker install.

Update.

Installed one rear speaker. Iím pretty sure all is correct. I work in Av field.
Amp is a small power pack amp that plugs in between radio and speakers. Itís under the dash right now. I thought 45rms per channel would be enough. I was avoiding the whole cable run to the trunk ordeal. Rca. Power. Remote and all that crap. Too old for this.

For some reason the stock speaker sounded better. There is zero improvement with the Morel speaker out back.
I played with polarity thinking maybe thatís it. I even bypassed the crossover, no change.

Any input before I reinstall the old speaker back tomorrow ? Since there is zero improvement Iím gonna try to the glue the stick speaker back in and send Morels back.


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post #6 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tbilisi79 View Post
Update.

Installed one rear speaker. Iím pretty sure all is correct. I work in Av field.
Amp is a small power pack amp that plugs in between radio and speakers. Itís under the dash right now. I thought 45rms per channel would be enough. I was avoiding the whole cable run to the trunk ordeal. Rca. Power. Remote and all that crap. Too old for this.

For some reason the stock speaker sounded better. There is zero improvement with the Morel speaker out back.
I played with polarity thinking maybe thatís it. I even bypassed the crossover, no change.

Any input before I reinstall the old speaker back tomorrow ? Since there is zero improvement Iím gonna try to the glue the stick speaker back in and send Morels back.


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That's definitely a disappointment.

The amplifiers in the OEM system are mounted behind the rear seats. If you plug your amplifier into the stock harness it will not play well with the OEM amps.

If you're not ready to bypass the OEM harness, why not try the Morel speakers with the OEM head unit and amps.

Regards,
Axel

1990 SEC, Arctic White w/gray interior, M119.960 326 Hp. engine from 1992 500 SL, 722.370 transmission from 500E (reinforced clutches), 2:82 Differential, Euro Headlamps, 1st Gear Start module, One-Touch Window module and Keyless Entry module all from BergWerks, Bilstein HD Shocks on front axle, H&R lowering springs front and rear, AMG 3-piece 17" rims, 8.5" in the front and 10" at the rear.


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post #7 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 07:38 PM
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Did you run new wires to the speakers in the back? If you're using the stock wiring it's going through the stock crossover network according to AxelWulff.
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post #8 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 11:17 PM
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I concur with the census that the new components, receiver, amp and front/rear speakers need to be wired together as a system. Forget all the factory wiring as you only need a constant and switched hot +12V source and a good ground for the new system. Also as mentioned forget the door speakers at this time. The factory speakers are something like 2 or 1 ohm speakers designed to be compatible with the lower power original Becker system. What you observed with only one new Morel speaker connected in the rear is that the lower impedance (factory) speakers will play 2-3 times louder than the new speaker as it most likely is 8 ohm or possibly 4 ohm. Your first instinct will be the "louder" speaker is better but that is a false impression. The new Alpine amp has plenty of power for all 4 new speakers. As mentioned, get some high quality 4" 2-way speakers for the dash then all 4 speakers will be the same impedance and balanced. Forget the original amps and wiring as it is not suitable for modern systems and as Mercedes themselves changed the systems around 1993 to something that is similar to modern offerings. I recently upgraded both SEC and SEL with a similar Kenwood receiver (has all the modern bluetooth, hands free phone and a nice amber screen) along with the Alpine KTP-445U amp and the results are amazing. The main difference is the modern electronics have less than 1% distortion where as the old Becker was closer to 10% so the entire listening experience is more accurate, extended frequency range and balanced, delivering tight bass, smooth natural mid-range and extended hi-frequencies. You are so close so don't turn back and don't mix 30 yr old speakers/technology with modern miracles of science. With the correct tools and knowledge of the pathways of your car one can rewire all the speakers in less than 2 hours. The next level would be to find the correct size low end drivers (subs/woofers) for your doors but again wire those directly to a separate KTP-445U utilizing the Subwoofer output of your Alpine receiver to that amp then to the door bass speakers for the additional low end thump. If your getting frustrated, find a reputable car stereo store that does installs and they should be able to finish up your project. Mike
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post #9 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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Speaker install.

Guys thanks so much for the input.
The stock amps behind rear seat have been by passed before me.

Yes I used rear factory speaker cable ( black +. Black and yellow - ). That goes into the morel crossover.

So alpine deck plugs into alpine 445a ( under the dash) into the factory harness that goes to the speakers.
Can there really be a factory crossover between the 445 and the rear speakers ?

I was in disbelief. Impossible for a morel speaker to be less loud than stock.

So run direct 2 cables from rear speakers to 445a amp ? In hopes of by passing some factory crossover thatís in between the dash and rear speakers ?

Iíll do that today after work. Run cables direct from 445 to the ear speaker and see if it makes a definite change.

I just donít want to remove the other rear speakers, cracking the grille in process and then curing up stock wires of the results will be disappointing again.

Iím just having hard time believing that the Morel speaker is worse than the stock unit.

Thanks again guys.


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post #10 of 100 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 02:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWulff View Post
That's definitely a disappointment.



The amplifiers in the OEM system are mounted behind the rear seats. If you plug your amplifier into the stock harness it will not play well with the OEM amps.



If you're not ready to bypass the OEM harness, why not try the Morel speakers with the OEM head unit and amps.


I donít have the oem head unit as it was replaced by a previous owner.
Also rear amps have been by passed as well, they are currently in my basement. Fader has also been by passed.


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