Sheared Woodruff Key - Mercedes-Benz Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Sheared Woodruff Key

In short, the crankshaft woodruff key on my 1991 420sel sheared, leaving the accessories sitting dead. The big 27mm crank bolt was sitting in the threads finger tight. In the hopes of saving myself a headache, I'd like any insight into whether or not it's possible to swap in a new key and get it back on the road. Better yet if I can do it with the engine in the car.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 05:25 PM
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You need to find out why the key let go. I would remove the belts and crank pulley and inspect to see what damage has been done to the groove in the crank for the woodruff key. If the groove looks ok after removing the remains of the key then I would replace the pulley and install with new w/key. Torque pulley to specs.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Big bolt on the crank snout was loose, causing play. The slot seems fine but the half of the key that slides under the timing cog, is still in there. Not sure how to go about removing that portion without pulling everything to pieces.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 06:57 PM
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You won't be able to get the part that sheared out of the crank without also removing the section securing the timing sprocket. You're going to have to remove the sprocket at the least. Doesn't that open Pandora's oil pump drive, too? IDK...

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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That's why I'm here. I don't know what it takes to get that sprocket off and that's what I need to accomplish.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:00 PM
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Look at the top of the forum for the service manual. Find the section that deals with the timing chain. That'll get you headed in the right direction.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 09:40 PM
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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Reading that thread the first time, I chalked it up to guy giving up and sending it away. This time through, I found a little walkthrough of fixing it.

SEARCH IN THE CURRENT
AND SHOW ME
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Sep 19, 2017 · #1
1986 560 SEC - Crankshaft Bolt Issue or Dampner/Pulley issue?
Question: Is it a loose bolt - or am I not that lucky?

So my beast started dying. I noticed one day the belts were not spinning with the engine but then kicked in out of nowhere. Not long after the car would start/run (until the battery died) but none of the accessory pulleys/belts were spinning. I figured it was the harmonic balancer or crankshaft pulley or both.

Today I got curious and slipped my phone in behind the fan to inspect the inside of the Vibration damper. You will notice from this short clip it has a missing bolt (1 out of 6) and the bolt to the crankshaft seems to have been moved.

https://youtu.be/kTO1AIgdk5o



So seeing what appeared to be a moved bolt had me wondering what was going on in there when the engine was running. I started the car and (as you can see in the next video) the bolt is turning as if it were loose from the pulley. Sorry for all the camera jerking - I was trying to get the phone back there without engine dying from lack of alternator spin / battery.

https://youtu.be/WdftpGh9KQo


Could this be as easy as bringing the bolt back up to Torque spec?

Also - check out this handy link for Vibration Damper Replacement by Pellican Auto
Mercedes-Benz W126 Vibration Damper Replacement | 1981-1991 S-Class | Pelican Parts DIY Maintenance Article
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Sep 19, 2017 · #2
pughboy said:
Original Post
Could this be as easy as bringing the bolt back up to Torque spec?


No.

Something is broken. I'm guessing right now it's the pulley, but the pulley is secured to the crankshaft with a keyway, which could also be the problem. Bottom line, you need to take it apart and figure out what's broken.
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Sep 19, 2017 · #3
John350 said:
Original Post
No.

Something is broken. I'm guessing right now it's the pulley, but the pulley is secured to the crankshaft with a keyway, which could also be the problem. Bottom line, you need to take it apart and figure out what's broken.


Thanks, that's what I was afraid of.
Time to tear down the radiator, shroud, and fan......
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Sep 19, 2017 · #4
Check all your belt driven accessories to make sure that none of them are seized or hard to spin .
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Sep 19, 2017 · #5
Richter Rox said:
Original Post
Check all your belt driven accessories to make sure that none of them are seized or hard to spin .


Thanks for that tip. There was some high pitch squealing at a certain rpm. I kept thinking it was air/vacuum related. Could very well be another pulley/bearing going out that caused too much load for that crankshaft pulley.......
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Sep 20, 2017 · #6
Maybe, but I'm betting the problem originated at the pulley. Any problems with the accessories usually result in shredded belts, not broken pulleys.
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Sep 21, 2017 · #7
Your crankshaft pulley is secured on a hub with 6 M8 bolts. The hub is secured on the crankshaft with a large bolt (which requires a 27mm socket to turn it), which in your video is seen spinning. The torque is transmitted from the crankshaft to the hub throughout a key. When the key is broken (I think "sheared" is a better term), the crankshaft spins but the hub (and the pulley) not. That is your case.

At the time you take parts out, try to see what exactly put extra torque on the pulley that caused your key to break (something DID cause it to break, it just doesn't happen out of the clear blue sky). Hopefully in the end is just a key replacement, but the keyway may also be damaged. Be advised that you will need a special tool to lock the flywheel in place in order to loose and tighten that large bolt.
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Sep 21, 2017 · #8
liviu165 said:
Original Post

At the time you take parts out, try to see what exactly put extra torque on the pulley that caused your key to break (something DID cause it to break, it just doesn't happen out of the clear blue sky). Hopefully in the end is just a key replacement, but the keyway may also be damaged. Be advised that you will need a special tool to lock the flywheel in place in order to loose and tighten that large bolt.


Great post, thank you!!! I have seen a couple of these tools on eBay and some makeshift ones created via home depot visits. I really hope its just the key (Woodruff key??)
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Sep 21, 2017 · #9
Yes, Woodruff key.
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Sep 21, 2017 · #10
Wow, thats a first.Definitely get that pulley off, and you may have to get a new pulley and crankshaft flange.
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Oct 18, 2017 · #11
liviu165 said:
Original Post
Your crankshaft pulley is secured on a hub with 6 M8 bolts. The hub is secured on the crankshaft with a large bolt (which requires a 27mm socket to turn it), which in your video is seen spinning. The torque is transmitted from the crankshaft to the hub throughout a key. .


WTH is happening? I tore down the car and removed belts. I bumped the starter with 27mm socket/breaker bar. Turns out the bolt was already loose!!! I put the bolt back on and it spins. Pulley was not spinning before. The only thing I did was slide that enormous thing forward and back. Spin it.... see videos

Does it seem wobbly to you guys??

Bump starter :
https://youtu.be/iuPMiJMLR1Q


Pulley in full spin:
https://youtu.be/-x720G6gOLg



Was it just the stupid bolt!!!???
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Oct 18, 2017 · #12
You need to pull the hub to check the condition of the woodruff key.
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Oct 18, 2017 · #13
Either way you still need to pull the crank pulley, all the ones I've ever seen the woodruff key engages most if not all the way down both the pulley hub and the shaft it is mounted to. Even though it may be turning with the crank now there will be slippage that in the end WILL destroy all the involved parts
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Oct 18, 2017 · #14
Interesting. I have a similar situation, but haven't dug deeper since the shop told me they "measured runout" and I likely may be dealing with a "bent crankshaft."

If you are able to fix yours with a new hub, crank, key, this will serve as positive news.

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126...t-options.html
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Oct 18, 2017 · #15
Richter Rox said:
Original Post
You need to pull the hub to check the condition of the woodruff key.


Ok, everything is off. See images and video. Where is the key?

https://youtu.be/_3iK7x4zS8Q
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Oct 18, 2017 · #16
wooky_chew_bacca said:
Original Post
Either way you still need to pull the crank pulley, all the ones I've ever seen the woodruff key engages most if not all the way down both the pulley hub and the shaft it is mounted to.


Ok, pulled it. See previous post with images and video
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Oct 18, 2017 · #17
bondavi said:
Original Post


If you are able to fix yours with a new hub, crank, key, this will serve as positive news


I really hope that is the case!! Holding breath...
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Oct 18, 2017 · #18
I am not seeing an issue. Any thoughts on pics and video of Crankshaft I posted about 3 posts up?

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Oct 18, 2017 · #19
More pics
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Oct 18, 2017 · #20
Another look at crankshaft (video 2)
https://youtu.be/P8Um996g-hs
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Oct 18, 2017 · #21
Does your crank have a groove for where the woodruff key goes in? Couldn't see it in the vid.
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Oct 18, 2017 · #22
The key is MIA. The square slot in the flange in the first photo is where it fits. There is a matching slot in the crankshaft nose, which may now be filled with half of the sheared key. Can't really tell from the video. I thought I saw it for an instant in the second video, but can't say for sure. Picture is 9 seconds into the second video. The key is (was) about twice as wide as the slot in the flange, spans the two slots and locks the flange to the crank.

One possible explanation is the bolt was loose, allowing the flange to hammer on the key until it sheared off, allowing the flange to turn (or not turn) independent of the crankshaft.

I've attached a second image that shows the slots in the crank and flange.

You need to change that oil seal, too...
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Oct 18, 2017 · #23
John350 said:
Original Post
The key is MIA. The square slot in the flange in the first photo is where it fits. There is a matching slot in the crankshaft nose, which may now be filled with half of the sheared key. Can't really tell from the video. I thought I saw it for an instant in the second video, but can't say for sure. Picture is 9 seconds into the second video. The key is (was) about twice as wide as the slot in the flange, spans the two slots and locks the flange to the crank.


Ahhh I see it. Thanks for those pics!! I was wondering about replacing the deal as well.
Awesome! Thx John

I will update when I have one
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Oct 19, 2017 · #24
It looks like the nose of the crank is worn from the spinning pulley. I'd replace the pulley flange (it's worn too) and clean up the crank and use LocTite retaining compound when you install it. You don't want any play between the two or it'll fail again, probably more catastrophically.
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Oct 31, 2017 · #25
Have parts but found issue (s) after taking off PS pump (couldn't get front seal off). Found unattached hoses. What is this above the A/C compressor with a metal outlet and no hose attached? The other hose comes out from driver side and under hydraulic reservoir. 1st Picture is at position of PS after it's removal (ignore PS intake/out hoses).

Any idea as to what's missing? Are these hoses even related?
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Oct 31, 2017 · #26
That appears to be the SLS pump's inlet feed. Is a low pressure oil hose that comes from the bottom of the SLS tank to the inlet pipe of the SLS pump. What you need is an oil hose and a lot of cleaning.
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Oct 31, 2017 · #27
Based on the amount of hydraulic fluid all over the place, There is a good chance you have heated up that pump so much the seals are shot. Clean up the mess, get the new hose and about 5 bottles of SLS hydraulic fluid, cheap from the dealer and Febi available from any NAPA retailer. cycle the fluid thru the system and see if the pump leaks. Contact MRAMAY, a member in Las Vegas as he rebuilds / seals the pumps.
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Dec 19, 2017 · #28
bondavi said:
Original Post
Does your crank have a groove for where the woodruff key goes in? Couldn't see it in the vid.


Guys, I don't see a slot for a woodruff key in my crankshaft. I don't think it has one! It looks like the 27mm bolt holds it all together. I will post a new video, but I don't see anywhere on the crankshaft that the woodruff key fits.

Trying to get this thing buttoned up today.

1) Replaced the crankshaft seal, etc.
2) Replaced the SLS Fluid Hose between the air pump and reservoir.
3) Installing a used PS pump after bending the aluminum housing trying to pry out a bad seal around shaft.
4) Replacing the belts
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Dec 19, 2017 · #29
Where is my woodruff key slot (Should I have one?)
I have replaced the crankshaft seal and inspected the shaft for a slot to place the woodruff key in. There does not appear to be a slot! Is it possible that the 1987 560 SEC used only the 27mm crankshaft bolt and not a woodruff key?
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Dec 19, 2017 · #30
A previous post showed the inside of the pulley (I think) and it clearly has the key way. There must be one on the crank, too. I'm guessing that all that spinning "welded" the remains of the key to the crank. Unless the end of the crank is tapered, there's no way the bolt is going to hold it.

You could try some 320 grit emery cloth on the front surface of the crank to see if you can reveal the slot. I think it's buried under some smeared metal. Once you find it you can hopefully drive the debris out with a tiny chisel or a screw driver.
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Dec 19, 2017 · #31
In addition to others' contributions, here is the M117 hub, vibration damper & v-belt pulley notes from the MBCDs..

Hope this helps..

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Dec 19, 2017 · #32
OK, I guess I should read the manual... (Ask for directions?)

The key you're looking for is a sort of semi-circle affair. Picture below. Your problem is, half of the key holds the timing gear to the crankshaft and the other half, which is supposed to hold the hub for the damper, is missing. The photo I posted before shows the sheared off end of the part still holding the timing gear (I think). (The other photo I posted shows a different key with a square cross section.)

Woodruff key:



Remaining part:



You're going to have to remove the timing cover and timing gear and dig the key out of there and replace it.

When you put it back together make sure you have those 4 Belleville washers under the bolt head.
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Dec 20, 2017 · #33
pughboy said:
Original Post
Trying to get this thing buttoned up today.


If you're really in a rush, you could try installing the flange with Loctite 640 high strength sleeve retaining compound. If it works, you're golden, but if it fails unexpectedly you're in for a tow...

(I wouldn't try it myself...)
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Dec 21, 2017 · #34
To determine if you had a key, why don't you post a picture of the back of the hub that goes against the sprocket inside the engine? If your hub has a keyway ... well there you'd have the answer. Everybody got hanged up on the pictures you posted, when actually the answer might be on the part you did not show. The way that keyway looks may also tell the story of what happened to the key.

Your front oil seal is not seated correctly.
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Dec 21, 2017 · #35
liviu165 said:
Original Post
To determine if you had a key, why don't you post a picture of the back of the hub that goes against the sprocket inside the engine?

He did; see post 15. Both the flange and the service manual indicate there should be a half-moon shaped key. It spans both the timing sprocket and the flange. The half for the flange has been sheared off.
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Dec 21, 2017 · #36
Sorry, my mistake. I did not go back to read every post.
Well, then is quite clear. Oh, and BTW, we don't need to look for the missing half, it's in the oil pan. To put things back together is not so complicated:
- Take the oil pan down
- Break a link of the oil pump chain.
- Break a link of the timing chain (if it has a removable link then rotate to bring it down and remove the link to open the chain). Do NOT rotate the crankshaft anymore.
- Slide the sprocket out and take the key out (what's left of it). Removing the oil seal most likely will be necessary too.
- Put the sprocket back with a new key (a new sprocket may be needed)
- Reconnect the chains with removable (new) links - the timing chain First, then the crankshaft can be rotated if needed
- Check timing by rotating the crankshaft
- Install new oil seal
- Reinstall the oil pan (or a new one) with a new gasket
- Install a new hub (the key way is pretty much done at this point, a new one would be the way to go IMO)
- Reinstall the rest of the parts (harmonic balancer, pulley and belts)
- Add oil and take it for a spin

I'll probably do this, but with the engine out. I picked up what is supposed to be a good running engine (with a guarantee) from a local euro specific yard near me for cheap. It should at very least get me by and worst case, be a donor for a new crank.

So who has a quick and dirty how-to to pull this 4.2? All the junk on top of the engine, two exhaust bolts, two engine mount bolts. Can I get to all the bellhousing bolts and leave the trans in or is it easier to take these out as a unit?
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 03:22 AM Thread Starter
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Not sure how I managed to copy so much text into that last post, but here's what matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadicVar View Post
Reading that thread the first time, I chalked it up to guy giving up and sending it away. This time through, I found a little walkthrough of fixing it.

To put things back together is not so complicated:
- Take the oil pan down
- Break a link of the oil pump chain.
- Break a link of the timing chain (if it has a removable link then rotate to bring it down and remove the link to open the chain). Do NOT rotate the crankshaft anymore.
- Slide the sprocket out and take the key out (what's left of it). Removing the oil seal most likely will be necessary too.
- Put the sprocket back with a new key (a new sprocket may be needed)
- Reconnect the chains with removable (new) links - the timing chain First, then the crankshaft can be rotated if needed
- Check timing by rotating the crankshaft
- Install new oil seal
- Reinstall the oil pan (or a new one) with a new gasket
- Install a new hub (the key way is pretty much done at this point, a new one would be the way to go IMO)
- Reinstall the rest of the parts (harmonic balancer, pulley and belts)
- Add oil and take it for a spin

I'll probably do this, but with the engine out. I picked up what is supposed to be a good running engine (with a guarantee) from a local euro specific yard near me for cheap. It should at very least get me by and worst case, be a donor for a new crank.

So who has a quick and dirty how-to to pull this 4.2? All the junk on top of the engine, two exhaust bolts, two engine mount bolts. Can I get to all the bellhousing bolts and leave the trans in or is it easier to take these out as a unit?
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Today, 08:03 PM
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Hi I need to remove my crankshaft pulley from the car due to bending the fins . How do I remove ?
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