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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonywclark View Post
I just hope its none of the real pricey stuff, like the EHA($280), Idle control valve($150) or the Fuel regulator valve($250).
Have you checked the vacuum lines and connections, I have a MityVac for that IIRC was about 40 bucks or so. I ended up replacing several connctors (rubber vacuum line from OReilly's) and one of the hard plastic lines, again rubber line.

The EHA, regulator valve and others can be gotten at a you-pull-it yard, they are specific for the 6's but you'd have more to choose from as long as it's the M103 engine (300TE, 300E, as well as the 300SE/SEL). It's a crapshoot for the EHA but I found one that was still holding gas under pressure, no leaks. Also the timing controller on the left fender, can't remember it's name just now

Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints
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My Stable:
'91 560SEC "Ursula"
'91 300SE (sold) "Sadie"
'11 Suzuki SX4 Sport Sedan
'02 S-10 Truck
'72 SeaBird boat, "Riff Raft", overhaul restarted

Dif-tor heh smusma
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I'm surprised that NOBODY has asked me what this is / means
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LOL
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wooky_chew_bacca View Post
Have you checked the vacuum lines and connections, I have a MityVac for that IIRC was about 40 bucks or so. I ended up replacing several connctors (rubber vacuum line from OReilly's) and one of the hard plastic lines, again rubber line.

The EHA, regulator valve and others can be gotten at a you-pull-it yard, they are specific for the 6's but you'd have more to choose from as long as it's the M103 engine (300TE, 300E, as well as the 300SE/SEL). It's a crapshoot for the EHA but I found one that was still holding gas under pressure, no leaks. Also the timing controller on the left fender, can't remember it's name just now
I replaced all vacuum lines(rubber and hard). As for the you-pull-it yards, I haven't seen any mercedes 300. Mostly newer 2000 on up.

Anthony Clark, BSEE
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 02:03 PM
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Yea, Mercedes as a whole are getting hard to find, used to be a dime a dozen during cash for clunkers, especially 126's

Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints
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My Stable:
'91 560SEC "Ursula"
'91 300SE (sold) "Sadie"
'11 Suzuki SX4 Sport Sedan
'02 S-10 Truck
'72 SeaBird boat, "Riff Raft", overhaul restarted

Dif-tor heh smusma
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I'm surprised that NOBODY has asked me what this is / means
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonywclark View Post
... She has had it stall once while cruising ...
I just came over from the W124 group out of curiosity … and feel the urge to replay just because of this one quoted sentence (contains very helpful information).

I suggest, before you spend any money or time, keep a multimeter in the car and wait until the engine stalls and doesn’t restart again.
Then switch the key to “ON” (not crank) and check whether you can hear the fuel pumps run for a second or two. If they don’t briefly run: It’s the fuel pump relay!
If they do: Check voltage between terminal 1 and 2 of the diagnostic socket (mounted onto the left fender well) during cranking. If you don’t see voltage between 6 and 12 volts: It’s the crankshaft position sensor! (or - less likely - the EZL)
Otherwise it’s probably the distributor cap/rotor! (or - less likely - the ignition coil)
Teutone, GreenT, liviu165 and 1 others like this.

Last edited by H.D.; 10-25-2015 at 07:59 AM.
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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Update 2

All,
I have replaced the cap, rotor, wires, and plugs. Runs great, still having issue after car is at normal temperature. I will do the electrical test. I also plan on checking the spark. If I am getting spark during cranking, I am wondering if my fuel regulator may be bad and flooding it. Could it also be tank purge valve or EHA on the fuel distributor? If its that, doesn't this need to be tuned to the car or is it a simple swap?

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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Clarification

What has been replaced and tested:
1.)all rubber fuel lines, filter,accumulator, and pump(pump DOES come on when turning the ignition)
2.) Cap, rotor, plugs, wires are brand new and work great.
3.) Air filter, purge valve(from charcoal filter) are 6 months old and look good
4.) All vacuum lines (rubber and hard tubing) have been replaced
5.) oil and filter changed 3 months ago
6.) Using the proper gas octane level

Car DOES startup and idle fine. Runs great even warm(no rough idling or misfiring). It just doesn't want to restart after driving a while and warms up. Let it sit for approx. and hour and its starts up great. Working on electrical signal and/or fuel regulator. Does the sitting an hour allow the car to cool or gas to vaporize??? Will follow up

Anthony Clark, BSEE
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 10:33 AM
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Okay Anthony, let’s see what we got:

1)
You say your “pump DOES come on when turning the ignition”
Does the fuel pump also come on when the car can not be restarted (with the engine still warm)
The tests I recommended in my last post refer to that situation only!
So, if not done so yet, first find out whether the fuel pump comes on when you or your daughter vainly try to restart the engine. Then we know whether there is a problem with the FPR (fuel pump relay) or not. Show your daughter what it should sound like when turning the key to ignition (not to crank), so that she knows how to check that next time!

2)
Your plan to do a spark test has the same meaning as what I suggested, when I said: check voltage between terminal 1 and 2 of the diagnostic socket during cranking. If you don’t see voltage between 6 and 12 volts, respectively if you don’t see sparks at your spark plug: It’s the CPS (crankshaft position sensor)! (or - less likely - the EZL)
Checking the voltage at the diagnostic socket is just a lot easier to do than a spark test.
And again: It only makes sence to do that, when the car can not be restarted.

3)
You wonder: "Could it also be tank purge valve or EHA on the fuel distributor? If its that, doesn't this need to be tuned to the car or is it a simple swap?"
Forget the fuel pressure regulator and the tank purge valve and at the moment also the EHA!
Generally, after replacing the EHA only the basic setting of the KE-Jetronic (or as many misleadingly call it “the air/fuel mixture”) needs to be checked and possibly readjusted.

4)
You ask: “Does the sitting an hour allow the car to cool or gas to vaporize?”
That’s indeed a justified question. Because there is another suspect, the fuel pump’s check valve.
If that is leaky, then you have reduced or even no more holding pressure in the system after the engine is switched off or stalls. That plus the heat of the engine (under the closed hood), which when no more cold fuel is pumped through the system heats up the fuel lines between the injectors and the fuel distributor causes “vapor locks”.
And as well as a faulty FPR or a faulty CPS, that, caused by a faulty fuel pump check valve (or any other leak, like for instance in the accumulator) can result in exactly the same problem that your daughter’s car shows. But checking the FPR and the CPS is a lot easier then checking the check valve.

So, if the FPR and the CPS should prove to be okay, then it’s very probably the check valve!

H.D.
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Update3

I just finished testing a few items.
I allowed the engine to reach normal operating temperature. It ran for a while before it shut off. I tried to restart and it would crank but no startup.The pump DOES come on.
I tested leads 1 and 2. I am getting 8 to 9V BUT I am NOT getting a spark. (removed spark plug and cranked)
Does this mean I have another sensor(engine temp sensor) telling the car to shut down. See pic.
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 11:25 AM
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Now we know:
- the FPR is okay!
- the CPS is okay!
- the EZL is also okay, as far as it generates the TD-signal (square wave voltage, which you measured)

But you have no spark … although you renewed the sparks, the spark plug wires and the distributor cap and rotor.

Provided that you have no doubts about the quality of the distributor cap and rotor, that means that there is either a problem with:
- the cable between the distributor and the coil
- the coil
- the wires connected to terminals 1 & 15 of the coil
- the coil’s connection to ground
- the EZL

Both the coil and the EZL can cause problems when hot. Check whether the EZL is solitely fixed to it’s monuting surface. There should also be functional heat conductive paste on the EZL’s mounting surface.

Forget the CTS (coolant temperature sensor). That one only has an influence on the ignition timing, but not on “spark” or “no spark”.
one life live it likes this.
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Update3a

I allowed the engine to cool and tried the spark test again. I am getting spark to the spark plug. BUT while it is running, my voltage test from leads 1 and 2 reads 4 to 6V.
Does this go back to be a crank pos. sensor? If so, where is it located? Any visual aids will help.

Anthony Clark, BSEE
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