M104 3.2 Burning Oil after Head Rebuild -- Thoughts and Guidance, please. - Page 9 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #81 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 10:41 AM
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One more thing Bryce. I was going to suggest one more thing with this Engine before the leak down test, but I did not want to sound stupid as I am not a mechanical engineer, neither a mechanic. From the physics of the whole bottom Engine, I understand that one can do the leakdown test at different piston positions. The most common is TDC because that is close to the combustion but leak down tests can also be conducted in any position as long as all of the valves are closed for that cylinder.

Firstly, is this true, second, would multiple leakdown tests at different positions reveal this piston ring issue because we can show the signs of the uneven ring (and maybe even cylinder) wear.
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post #82 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dolucasi View Post
Hi Tuttebenne, this is a higher performance M104 Engine. I'm just an observer of this forum with the M103 Engine and a previous owner of the M104 engine.

I'm just surprised that no one else with a M104 Engine who has done the exact same thing is chiming in here. So why is this case a one off in this forum? It should be more common among same Engine class. Maybe a M104 valve only job is not that common? It is very common with M103 but M104 could be a very different matter all together. Basically, Mercedes has squeezed 25% more compared to a 2 valve old style engine in a 4 valve M104, even if with same material used, perhaps the wear patterns are different.
Ducolasi, Just my opinion, but I think all the M104 boys abandoned trying to help with this thread once they saw there was little progress being made and the responses were starting to sound unrealistic and bordering on comical. The main difference between an M104 and M103 is the number of valves and related valve gear. This means the number of guides through which oil can flow, the number of seals that can leak oil passed and the number of valves that could be worn, is DOUBLE that of an M103. A shoddy job on an M104 head has the potential to causse oil consumption that is more serious on an M103 vs an M104. I know the differences between the two of them but the block, rings, and cylinder wear characteristics could hardly be considered to be unique to the M104; its the head that is where all the action is at.

I know there are those who want to explore the esoteric nature of mid stroke ring leakage and ring wear and I would not deny this is very remotely possible if at all. However we are talking about an engine that:
- is burning a quart of oil every 500 miles,
- has enviable compression ring and cylinder wall performance
- had minimal oil consumption prior to the head rebuild,
- unfortunately has seen a significant increase in consumption shortly after having the head work performed.

The recent test result support the observations of many who have tried to help with this thread. The boxes of unused new valve stem seals is a compelling piece of information that should be followed up on before any other actions are taken.

I hope the OP can solve the problem he has because, after all, its his problem to solve. Those of us who have been contributing have been trying our best to reduce the pain and to shorten the process and I guess the intangible aspect of this problem is what prevents a straight path directly to the solution but most of us have been trying to stay away from the types of solutions that are extreme and unnecessary.

It is becoming painfully obvious that the OP either will have to accept the oil consumption and all the damage that will go with it, or invest in more serious diagnostics with either the head on the engine or off.
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post #83 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Visited the mechanic to pull the valve cover off and check to see if the guides and seals are in place, which they are.

However, I showed him the results of the compression and leakdown tests. He's agreed to remove the head at no charge and send it back to the machine shop for evaluation.
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post #84 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by stradivari1689 View Post
Visited the mechanic to pull the valve cover off and check to see if the guides and seals are in place, which they are.

However, I showed him the results of the compression and leakdown tests. He's agreed to remove the head at no charge and send it back to the machine shop for evaluation.
That's a big step. At least the leakdown test was not a complete waste afterall. Keep us posted Stradivari! Cheers!
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post #85 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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One thing I did bring up was if anything else *aside from* the engine proper could be causing the oil consumption. He once again brought up the matter of the PCV valve that he had replaced but then also pointed to a hose leading from the intake to an area behind the A/C compressor and steering pump, saying something about a filter that's in that area and something about "crankcase ventilation."

What are your thoughts about this and what is he referring to?

Our plan of action is to remove the head and send it back to the shop that did the rebuild. He doubts that the shop made any mistakes because of his long-running relationship with them, and I understand his level of trust, but when I showed him the leakdown results he conceded that even the best make mistakes. If the head is without fault, he will give me the option of reassembling everything, also at no charge or proceeding with the bottom end, and I made it known I would probably just have him put everything back together and accept the result of the evaluation. I did mention considerable regret at having opted for the complete rebuild of the head as opposed to just doing the gasket, saying that I wouldn't have done the former if I knew that this excessive oil consumption would be a potential sequela. Obviously I am hoping something is found, but if not, I suppose it is what it is. I like the 104 motor a lot and I figured it would be better to do everything on the top end while it was out of the car thinking that I would have a very nice running motor after all was said and done.

I should also mention that the shop that did the leakdown test called to follow up as well. I was pleasantly surprised by that bit of customer service.

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post #86 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 11:33 PM
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Strange that he brought up the PCV valve. Recall, that's the only other possible source of oil fumes getting into your intake and straight into the cylinders from there.

I wonder if that got messed up somehow. Did you ever ask him why he changed it? Anyway, he should make sure everything is OK with that PCV valve. Basically there are fumes going directly from there into the intake as I was reminded by H.D. I think the PCV valve helps to pass air and less of the oily fumes from under the valve cover.

Anyway it is a long shot but better check that out and see if the end that goes into the intake is oily. (not sure it that was done already)
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post #87 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 02:45 AM
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In my post 54 i did mention to ask the garage to check the crank case ventilation .holes , If the system is blocked in any way, then it will pressure the oil system .
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post #88 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:00 AM
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Great posts guys and I certainly agree that with low mileage and the only thing being done to the engine and THEN an oil burning issue it SHOULD be the head having a problem!

This is the problem with a 1000 mile diagnosis on Any vehicle...

I will await the outcome....

Bryce
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post #89 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 04:47 AM
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Coming up on a month since the last post; any update on this one? Inquiring minds want to know.

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post #90 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 10:03 AM
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To my understanding and based on the link below, the M104.995 does not have a PCV valve. Fresh air is circulated through the crankcase by vacuum and positive pressure during idle, partial, and full load from two breather holes in the air intake pipe to the intake manifold.

http://www.w124performance.com/servi...04/01-0400.pdf


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