M104 3.2 Burning Oil after Head Rebuild -- Thoughts and Guidance, please. - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #61 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stradivari1689 View Post
... I supplied a number of parts and noted that something pertaining to the valves was returned to me. I said, "they come in these little inch square boxes, Corteco brand. I just assumed that they weren't comfortable using parts supplied by me and used their own." His response: those are the Mercedes parts, they could have forgotten to do the valve seals. It's possible, people make mistakes."
My $0.02
Put off any focus on the bottom end (leak down test, additional compression tests, etc) because there was no issue before you had the head done and you have observed there is no appreciable crank case pressure indicating ring issues.

Spend your money this Friday having the mechanic remove the parts necessary to allow an inspection of the upper end of the valves, guides and seals to take place. First step would be to see if the seals are there. Second step would be to wiggle the valve in the guide to see if the guide is worn. Third, he should be able to measure the valve stem to see if it is worn. Finally, he if nothing else is found, he can install the new seals that the other mechanic returned to you. This is money better spent than leakdowns and compression checks on a motor that has no indication there is a bottom end issue.
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post #62 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 06:35 PM
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The man said "Trust but verify". The mechanic claims the compression is perfect, 180 on each cylinder.
I would want to know if that is true. If they messed up the oil thing, they probably messed up that too.
Also, what if we are all mistaken and the guides/seals are just fine on this car.

I agree I would have them check a few of the guides/valves really quick when they do the leakdown test as that requires the valve cover to come off anyway.
And I believe they may need to pressurize the cylinders for the valve check anyway, this can be done during the leakdown test as the cylinders would be pressured already.

I would want to know my engine is in perfect condition except the oil burning. Or if it is not,I would want to know that too before I throw more money at the problem.
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post #63 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 06:41 PM
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The man said "Trust but verify". The mechanic claims the compression is perfect, 180 on each cylinder.
I would want to know if that is true. If they messed up the oil thing, they probably messed up that too.
Also, what if we are all mistaken and the guides/seals are just fine on this car.

I agree I would have them check a few of the guides/valves really quick when they do the leakdown test as that requires the valve cover to come off anyway.
And I believe they may need to pressurize the cylinders for the valve check anyway, this can be done during the leakdown test as the cylinders would be pressured already.

I would want to know my engine is in perfect condition except the oil burning. Or if it is not,I would want to know that too before I throw more money at the problem.
BTW, I'm going to do this (leakdown test and valve guide check) on my own engine once I get a compressor. Should be a good weekend project.

So I'm in agreement with you.
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post #64 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Here are the results of the third-party test:

Compression
Cylinder
1: 210psi
2: 200psi
3: 200psi
4: 205psi
5: 208psi
6: 200psi

Leakdown
Cylinder
1: 80/78
2: 80/78
3: 80/78
4: 80/75
5: 80/77
6: 80/76
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post #65 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by stradivari1689 View Post
Here are the results of the third-party test:

Compression
Cylinder
1: 210psi
2: 200psi
3: 200psi
4: 205psi
5: 208psi
6: 200psi

Leakdown
Cylinder
1: 80/78
2: 80/78
3: 80/78
4: 80/75
5: 80/77
6: 80/76
As many of us have said, the bottom end on these motors is stout. Your mechanic should be pulling the cams next and inspecting the seals, guides and valves. OR he should be simply pulling the head for deeper inspection. Also, you should be preparing your small claims court offensive position.
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post #66 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 08:26 PM
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Well stradivari, those numbers are perfect, so rings are good, valves are good.

Your valve guides do not appear to show the symptom of dripping oil in the the combustion chambers when after cool down either.

I assume the leak-down test did not include a cursory check of the valve guides but I'm guessing no mess up there either. Hopefully they did not forget to put the valve seals in.

We have also ruled out the blow-by gasses being a major issue.

Honesty, at this point, I'm not sure if I would go deeper into this and pull the head off again with a new mechanic.
Seems you have no other issues related to oil burning, meaning nothing else is getting effect by it. You mentioned some idle hunt, etc but those are not related to oil burning.

Unfortunately, in this state, it will only take a couple of years before you will have to change the Catalytic converter. Also, you will need to change your spark plugs once a year, because they will get dirty. My car burns the same mount and there are no issues with ignition or combustion after nearly one year after the last tune-up/spark plug change. Getting ready for a tune-up now.

My position remains unchanged, if I were you, I would take your car to the dealership and tell them what happened to date. Ask them if they can help you. Most likely they will say "yep, we can fix this, and it will cost you xxxx dollars". Remember they are there to make some money on car repairs but they want a happy customer in hopes to see you a new car some day. If you can stomach the xxxx dollars, go for it, because if it does not get fixed, you will have it all back, I truly believe that.

This has been my experience with the dealership here.

And the good news is you actually know more about your engine then they do now, after all the tests, so they are not going to be able to BS you in any way.
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post #67 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 05:02 AM
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This has been my experience with the dealership here.

And the good news is you actually know more about your engine then they do now, after all the tests, so they are not going to be able to BS you in any way.
You have a unique dealership that you work with. Most don't have techs who know 30 year old engines and also most don't repair assemblies, they replace them. I'm not saying the OP can't find a dealer who would want to methodically go through a cylinder head, I'm just saying its rare these days.
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post #68 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
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The dealer here in town said essentially, "you might as well write us a blank check."

Same dealer basically said the same thing when I asked about the subframe recall on a 450sl I just bought.

They clearly don't want to be bothered with old cars.
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post #69 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by stradivari1689 View Post
The dealer here in town said essentially, "you might as well write us a blank check."

Same dealer basically said the same thing when I asked about the subframe recall on a 450sl I just bought.

They clearly don't want to be bothered with old cars.
Well, at least you tried. Maybe my case was a little different in that even though the dealership has changed hands since I bought the car from their showroom back in '89, they claimed the mechanic that probably worked on my car is now the floor manager.
It was nothing personal either, I had not been there to buy a car or to the shop in the last 15 years for any of my cars.

Now you have to decide to fix it or just let it be. I'm just waiting to pull my head until I have to change the camshaft and the rockers as well as the head gasket. Everything on my 103 head is original. No oil leaks whatsoever other than the timing cover plate, which has a diaper on it so it does not make a mess.

In the meantime, the CAT gets replaced every couple of years with an aftermarket Walker ($250) with labor and a quart of oil is put in every other gas fill up. You have to watch out for your next emissions test though, with all that oil burning, you may not be able to pass it without some trouble. Mine was difficult.

Or... you find a shop that you can truly trust and go for it.
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post #70 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 12:01 PM
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Seen it too many times!!!

As the previous owner of a auto repair shop I have seen too many times that you rebild the head and it pulls oil UP past the rings and causes oil burning. Its a simple matter of vacuum. I guarantee that this is the issue, the leakdown test works because its positive pressure you are dealing with NEGATIVE pressure.
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