M104 3.2 Burning Oil after Head Rebuild -- Thoughts and Guidance, please. - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #21 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 08:48 AM
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Hmmm. That is a negative. At least it seems your problem is different then mine. White smoke is just humidity/steam. If it did not have any oil particles mixed in, I'm guessing oil is not dripping into your cylinders thru the valve guides.

This has been my assumption for my car and I have read this in other forums/posts.

So my guess is that oil is not seeping thru your valve guides when the engine is not is not running.

It must be getting into your cylinder(s) some other way.
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post #22 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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So then the ring hypothesis is likely correct?
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post #23 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 11:12 AM
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rings would be blowing blue smoke, and likely blowing your PCV plumbing off, open the oil filler cap while its idling, if its rings all kinda crap will be coming out of there. ideally, you leave the unfastened cap sitting over the oil filler hole, and the cap mostly sits there, and only dances a little. if there's engine blowby, either from valve stem seals, or rings, the cap gets pushed off.


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post #24 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 02:20 PM
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It is so sad to see how a good running car has gotten so fouled up by an irresponsible mechanic. The good ones know that you take the good with the bad. When a job goes bad, you very well could lose money on the job but you bite the bullet in the interest of keeping the customer and reputation.

At this point the car runs but smokes. It could be much worse but continuing with the car in this condition (10,000 miles?) isn't going to do it any good either.

Its time to fish or cut bait. All the well meaning folks on this site aren't going to fix your car for you.

I know this is a lousy situation and you feel like you got the messy end of the stick on this one but you have to move on. You don't seem to be experienced enough to tackle this problem yourself and don't feel bad because most people couldn't. It takes a highly qualified person with years of experience on these particular cars to figure out what has happened and to remedy it.

Honestly, if someone here told you the rings were shot, would you actually go to a shop and ask them to change the rings? Doubt it. If you became convinced the valve guides are all cracked would you jam them up the mechanic's ... well you get the idea. The logical next step is to get the car to a qualified person to find out what is wrong.

You could talk to the machine shop that did the work, and there could be a lot of value in doing this because I suspect they will stand behind their work more so than your mechanic.

The next step isn't to try to do long distance diagnostics, its to find another mechanic. And if your mechanic is as bad as he appears to be, you would be doing others in the So Cal area a solid if you were to disclose the name of the shop that caused this problem.

Sorry for being such a "cold pail of water"; I wish there was more that could be done remotely.

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post #25 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 07:59 PM
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I agree with tutebenne except, I would be cautious to take the car to another mechanic that you may or may not trust because he also may start replacing parts on you that does not need replacing trying to diagnose you problem.

I would not rule out the dealership either. I visited them a year ago to diagnose my CA smog problem. The deal was if they can fix my problem I would pay them whatever they asked. They could not, I ended up with new cold start valve, new injectors, a whole bunch of smog diagnostics and fuel treatments, adjustments, new spark plugs. Total bill was >$2000. Car was running great but did not pass smog after the work they did. Guess what, they returned all my money, no questions asked and I knew the car does not have ignition or emission parts issues after all that diagnostics.

If I were you (actually I am, because I will do these tests on my car with the 500mi/quart problem) I would still do what LeftCoastGeek suggested.
It is free and it may tell us something.

And lastly, a leak down test will also tell you something about your rings in conjunction with the standard compression test.
If what your shop is telling you is the truth you have excellent compression. If I were you, I would definitely verify that. Do it yourself it is just too easy not to.
If your compression is really that good, that just means your valves are doing a good job sealing the ports.

A leak down test will tell you if there is too much space between your piston rings and your engine block if you have excellent valves.

I believe this is also an easy test but not as easy as the compression test. This test tells you how much air is escaping between the piston rings and the cylinder wall "with precision" if you have a prefect compression. Air will always escape thru between rings and block and the leak down test tells you exactly how much. This is pretty much the gap. If it is large then you know oil can come thru there as well.

Honestly, I do not think it is your piston rings, but if you take it to a mechanic and he does not suggest this immediately, walk away and find yet another mechanic.

But first try the LCG (Sory leftcoast your name is too long) test, see if there is access blow by.
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post #26 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 08:04 PM
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I agree with tutebenne except, I would be cautious to take the car to another mechanic that you may or may not trust because he also may start replacing parts on you that does not need replacing trying to diagnose you problem.

I would not rule out the dealership either. I visited them a year ago to diagnose my CA smog problem. The deal was if they can fix my problem I would pay them whatever they asked. They could not, I ended up with new cold start valve, new injectors, a whole bunch of smog diagnostics and fuel treatments, adjustments, new spark plugs. Total bill was >$2000. Car was running great but did not pass smog after the work they did. Guess what, they returned all my money, no questions asked and I knew the car does not have ignition or emission parts issues after all that diagnostics.

If I were you (actually I am, because I will do these tests on my car with the 500mi/quart problem) I would still do what LeftCoastGeek suggested.
It is free and it may tell us something.

And lastly, a leak down test will also tell you something about your rings in conjunction with the standard compression test.
If what your shop is telling you is the truth you have excellent compression. If I were you, I would definitely verify that. Do it yourself it is just too easy not to.
If your compression is really that good, that just means your valves are doing a good job sealing the ports.

A leak down test will tell you if there is too much space between your piston rings and your engine block if you have excellent valves.

I believe this is also an easy test but not as easy as the compression test. This test tells you how much air is escaping between the piston rings and the cylinder wall "with precision" if you have a prefect compression. Air will always escape thru between rings and block and the leak down test tells you exactly how much. This is pretty much the gap. If it is large then you know oil can come thru there as well.

Honestly, I do not think it is your piston rings, but if you take it to a mechanic and he does not suggest this immediately, walk away and find yet another mechanic.

But first try the LCG (Sory leftcoast your name is too long) test, see if there is access blow by.
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post #27 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 01:18 AM
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Rocker box off ,you will see if the guides were replced or not .
And as you have the rocker box off you will be able to check the play in the guides . [As in my post above]
By the way Kevin , did the garage never show you the old gasket?
And find out who it was that worked on the head , and see what they have to say about it.
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post #28 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoastGeek View Post
rings would be blowing blue smoke, and likely blowing your PCV plumbing off, open the oil filler cap while its idling, if its rings all kinda crap will be coming out of there. ideally, you leave the unfastened cap sitting over the oil filler hole, and the cap mostly sits there, and only dances a little. if there's engine blowby, either from valve stem seals, or rings, the cap gets pushed off.
Tried this experiment this morning with a hot car after driving approximately 50 miles. Also of note is an occasional hunting/unstable idle, which might have affected the outcome of the test. When I removed the cap, the idle had been unsteady and a little bit of oil did spit out. The idle evened out a few seconds afterward (with the cap still loosened) and the cap just sat atop the filler hole with a slight tremor. When removed, nothing came out either. The idle also remained steady after the cap was fastened.

I did consult with one local mechanic who declined to do a compression and leakdown test saying that doing such could not definitively pinpoint the problem, that a teardown would be the only definitive way to render an accurate diagnosis, and that the car was simply not worth performing a procedure like this on. As he asked what the situation was that prompted my soliciting such a test, I believe that he (understandably) did not want to get caught in the middle of a potential dispute with another mechanic. What I think I should have been clearer about was that I was not seeking an opinion but just the raw numbers generated by these tests.
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post #29 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 08:17 PM
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A teardown? Meaning he wants to take your engine out and rebuild everything?

Before spending 30 minutes to conduct a compression test and another hour an a half to do a leak down test?

I would run away from that mechanic.

At this point other than the oil burning can you remind everyone what else is wrong with your car.
It is better if you just itemize.

As a reference my M103 also burns the same amount but I have no other complaints at all. So I keep putting a quart in every other gas tank fill (for the time being until I do a leak down test and most likely get around to get that much needed head job)
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post #30 of 98 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Hadlington View Post
Kevin you asked me if you can check if the guides are faulty .Well yes there is
You need to pressurise the cylinder and remove the valve spring .
Then hold the valve stem in your fingers and see what play you have in it ..
The shop will do this for you if you ask, But me i would go and find another competent garage and get back to the first one ,after you find any play in the valves..
No, it wasn't me that asked.

A good cylinder leakdown test will tell you the story if the valve guides are leaking and you don't have to take anything apart. Unless he's done the valve faces properly, then only under combustion would bad guides leak.......except if the guides are really sloppy and the valves won't even seat. This is just all weird for a supposedly rebuilt head. I mean who would do a valve job and leave in old guides and why is the oil consumption worse now than before with the same head?? Maybe even the theory given that you have a different head in there...geez.

Kevin
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Last edited by Real1shepherd; 02-12-2017 at 11:07 PM.
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