205/70/14 and 195/75/14 tyres - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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205/70/14 and 195/75/14 tyres

From using tyre calculator, it appears the diameter of these is only about 5mm different.
I assume either are OK on 6 inch wide rims?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 08:27 AM
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Yep that is right.

However you can get the original options Michelin XWX & Pirelli Cinturato CN36 https://www.lucasclassictires.com/20...057014CN36.htm
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Dougal Cawley View Post
Yep that is right.

However you can get the original options Michelin XWX & Pirelli Cinturato CN36 https://www.lucasclassictires.com/20...057014CN36.htm
$300 a tire seems really steep. I got some General Alitmax tires in 195/70/14 size from Tire Rack a few years ago for well under $100 each. They are also modern tires that can handle higher speeds.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 04:08 AM
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$300 a tire seems really steep. I got some General Alitmax tires in 195/70/14 size from Tire Rack a few years ago for well under $100 each. They are also modern tires that can handle higher speeds.
Hi

Oo there is quite a lot wrong with that. Both the Michelin XWX and Pirelli CN36 are better tyres, built to the highest possible standards by 2 of the worlds best tyre manufacturers.

They are higher specification if you look on these 2 web pages
XWX https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...helin-xwx.html
CN36 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...rato-cn36.html
and scroll down, it gives you the detail about the tyre. Both these tyres have a load rating of 89 (580kg) and a W speed rating (270kph nearly 170mph). which is why Mercedes fitted them in the first place.

Modern tyres absolutely do not handle better than these classic tyres on a classic car. Car design has moved along way since the '70s. and modern tyres have been developed to suit the new chassis design. your car does not have heaps of caster and adverss cambe. you haven't got self leveling suspension, etc. The high speed handling of a modern tyre on these older cars with their relatively soft suspension, will not be as good. totally the opposite.

Horses for courses.

I can justify the price of these tyres, because they are such high quality and specification. The real pricing problem is that they have to be made in such relatively small volumes. Also the difficulty is people associate the price of a tyre to the value of a car which actually has nothing to do with it. It is what your car is that determines what tyre you should buy. I do understand. i have V12 Jag that i paid 2,500 for and the tyres were over 1,000 for a set.

It is only really fair to compare their pricing to a modern top end Merc (something like an E350) tyre made by Michelin or Pirelli, and then expect it to be more expensive than that because of the costs of small batch production and distribution.

What we cannot get away from, regardless of how fair the pricing is, that it is a lot of money. it has a big effect on that months credit card bill etc. one of the services offered at Longstone is a shoulder to cry on.

currently the Michelin XWX is 229 + VAT inside the EU
Pirelli CN36 199 + VAT but there is a big deal of 869 + VAT on a set of 5 tyres or 699+ VAT on 4.

generally speaking there is free carriage to most places and of course if you are outside the EU there is no VAT
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 04:54 AM
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All of the above is absolutely correct, but who of us, in the US at least, where we predominantly got the 300D and 300D turbo, need a tire that is rated at 170 MPH? My main emphasis would be on the load range and a tire size that was originally designed for our cars.

My 1985 300CD's owner's manual calls for: 195/70 R 14 90 S

90= Load index up to 1325 pounds or 600 kilograms.
S= Up to a max of 118 MPH or 180 km/h.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 04:08 PM
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i just opted for the cinturatos for the vintage drive but also appearance, a must have for me at least, despite the steep price.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 06:56 PM
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Consider the Vredestein Sprint Classic as well. I prefer them to the Pirelli CN36's they replaced on my 300D turbo. They wore a little longer and they're definitely quieter.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-05-2019, 09:22 AM
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Consider the Vredestein Sprint Classic as well. I prefer them to the Pirelli CN36's they replaced on my 300D turbo. They wore a little longer and they're definitely quieter.
Hmm. that sounds odd.

When did you do that?

the CN36 you can buy now have only been available for a couple of years. The CN36 is better than the Vredestein. Might i suggest that the Pirelli you took off wasn't CN36 or was a very old tyre. A Vredestein might be better than a 20 year old CN36.

i also wonder what you paid for the Vredestein. they were popular in the UK when they were much cheaper than everything else. However the CN36 is currently a real bargain for an 89 V rated tyre.

and the CN36 looks good
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-05-2019, 11:29 AM
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The Pirelli tires I replaced with Vredestein Sprints were definitely CN36's. I bought them pretty much when they became available. They weren't cheap of course but I've always liked the tread pattern and they were a period correct.

I'm particular about the condition of my car. The suspension bushings, ball joints, tie rods, pivot bushings etc. are no more than a couple of years old. All of the rear suspension bushings are new along with the sub-frame bushings and sway bar end links. I also pay attention to tire pressure. The car is a decent platform to evaluate tires for a w123.

I'm not asserting the Pirelli's are a bad tire. They're an excellent tire. They just aren't well suited to the W123's suspension geometry, my driving style, and my tire noise tolerance in a touring sedan. I drive my w123 fairly hard and often (it's my commuter car). The car has a lot of body roll in cornering without much camber gain on either end. I had a lot of wear on the outside shoulder of the tires, particularly the fronts. Frequent rotation helped of course but wear is wear. The CN36 also makes more road noise than any other street tire I've ever used. The Vredestein had lower ultimate grip but a little slower wear on the OS shoulders (maybe a little stiffer sidewall or tread section). It was also noticeably quieter on the road. The Vredestein sells for $195 at Coker tire. The V speed rating on either tire is useless of course on a car that barely cracks a 100mph top speed.

This time around I abandoned high-quality classic tires for a 195/70-14 Sumitomo Touring LS T. I've only driven a couple of hundred miles on them so far but I thought I'd try a less expensive tire this time around.

Tires for the w123 (and all of the Youngtimer Mercedes) are definitely limited and I'm hunting for the ideal compromise. The only period-correct tires with correct fitment are V rated and very expensive and modern choices are generally all-season junk tires for minivans. Michelin has the MXV or XAS but both are only produced in 185 tread width. The XAS, while an older design is assymetrical and likely best for my driving style.

...and that's way more than anybody should care about for tires for our old cars...
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 04:14 AM
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A German Classic car magazine recently did a back to back classic tyre test, where among others the Vredestein did come secont to the Pirelli CN36 which won the test out right won the test. much better than the Vredestein in the Dry. and a little better in the wet.

Coker doesn't sell the Pirelli in the States. they come from https://www.lucasclassictires.com/20...057014CN36.htm

the 195/70R14 is a tricky one. I think it is because, generally speaking the flagship models of a range of cars tends to be the one with the highest survival rate. Also often the mid range models often get upgraded a little to be along with the flag ship models, probably why Michelin make the 205/70VR14 XWX as with the Pirelli 205/70WR14 CN36 (which are incidentally W rated)

Michelin do make a 175R14 XAS https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...helin-xas.html

One of the chaps that works with us has a W123 280 E. registered in 1977. In my 1978 Michelin fitment guide it says that the 280 E changed to 195/70R14 in September 1976 (still on 6" rims) so it is border line as to what tyre this car actually left the factory with. There is also an attraction to erring towards the taller tyres, because the gearing in these old cars, on our modern dual carriageways often benefits from the slightly taller diameter. and we fitted the 185HR14 Michelin MXV-P https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...lin-mxv-p.html for me it is all about the carcass structure, that makes the car drive right.
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