P0410 error code & CEL problem-- FIXED - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-17-2009, 12:41 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
chriswufgator's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2007
Vehicle: MB SL600, MB 380SE, Suzuki Grand Vitara, 38' Chris-Craft, Volvo V70XC, and my own two feet...
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to chriswufgator
ROFL, I must be dyslexic! Good catch, I mentally transposed the numbers and was thinking of the wrong code.
chriswufgator is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-17-2009, 12:48 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: 97SL500R129, 01ML320W163, 94E320W124 & 93500EW124
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 2,921
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Chris, thanks for clarifying. And please don't feel bad because with your comments I learned which is the upstream and downstream 02 sensor.

Ed
edcarls is offline  
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 01:11 PM
BenzWorld Newbie
 
Date registered: May 2010
Vehicle: 2000 CLK 320
Location: Fullerton, CA
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by davyjo View Post
My secondary air system has been setting a P0410 code for the past year.... I inspected the vac lines, the air pump operation, replaced the upstream Oxy sensors and the check valve but nothing changed. I found several posts on this same problem in another MB forum (using the same 5L engine)-- references to carbon build-up inside the head where the secondary air discharges into the exhaust port and huge $$$ estimates to tear down heads to ream out the carbon. I followed one owner's remedy of pouring 2 cans of carb cleaner (SeaFoam) into the secondary air tube and letting it soak for a couple days. It passed the CA smog inspection, flying colors, and hasn't posted a code for 3 weeks... problem solved!
I know you've dealt with this problem a while ago but, I had a quick question since I'm now dealing with the exact samething. Can you discribe or post photos of where the "secondary air tube(s)" is/are? I'm so ready to throw some seafoam down these tube and get rid of this problem forever...a big THANK YOU!

-miss mechanix
parisnoelle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-29-2015, 02:00 PM
BenzWorld Veteran
 
Date registered: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 1998 SL500, 1999 ML320
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 634
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
This is a very old thread but seems to be a good place to add a comment/question.

Added comment- 1998 SL500 now with 108,000 miles. Bought it around 75,000 or so.

I've always got a P0410 code since I got it around 2006. It's the only code that ever shows on my moderate-level scanner.

I know there is a problem, I think anyhow, with the electric air pump. Whenever I start the car there is, for 10 seconds or so, (Until the RPM drops to 600-700) a "gear like" sound. I have reported that sound to some indies and they say it's nothing. I was worried that it related to a camshaft shifter at first but when I got a better scanner it began reporting the P0410 code.

I'm pretty sure the electric pump is in bad shape but really am not in a situation where I can replace it. I believe that the fact that it only runs for a short time will not damage the car. Well, in 9 years nothing has happened to the engine and there are no other codes.

I just bought an engine stethoscope and will try, some time, to put the probe on the pump when the car is started and see whether the sound is indeed the pump.

Other folks have commented on replacing the pump, some say it's easy, others say it's hard. More than that, the cost of a rebuild pump is sort of high.

If anyone has a random thought please feel free to correct me or offer some suggestions.

One more thing - The car is going to the dealer on Tuesday, hopefully to diagnose a busted thermostat. I bought one that they will install if that's the issue. There are a couple of other things they will look at, and maybe I should add that air pump to the checklist.

Thanks, and sorry for a new post on an old thread.
chhs1950 is offline  
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-29-2015, 03:52 PM
BenzWorld Member
 
Date registered: May 2010
Vehicle: 1998 SL500, Panoramic Roof, Factory Xenons, Black/Black/Black 2012 GLK350 Black/Beige
Location: Peachtree City, GA
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
I had the same P0410 code on my 98 SL 500. Problem was caused by an air pump that failed due to a relay that stuck causing it to run continuously until it burned out. I purchased a replacement relay from the dealer and a used air pump very reasonably on eBay (can't recall exact amount but it was under $100). Took about an hour to replace; there is hidden mount on the top / back by the oil filter canister that I missed at first. Cleared the code and it hasn't come back for two years.

I checked and there are several used ones on eBay now. Be sure to check the orientation of the air outlet to the electric motor on the pump to make sure it matches yours.
boydm is offline  
post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-29-2015, 05:04 PM
BenzWorld Veteran
 
Date registered: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 1998 SL500, 1999 ML320
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 634
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Secondary air pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by boydm View Post
I had the same P0410 code on my 98 SL 500. Problem was caused by an air pump that failed due to a relay that stuck causing it to run continuously until it burned out. I purchased a replacement relay from the dealer and a used air pump very reasonably on eBay (can't recall exact amount but it was under $100). Took about an hour to replace; there is hidden mount on the top / back by the oil filter canister that I missed at first. Cleared the code and it hasn't come back for two years.

I checked and there are several used ones on eBay now. Be sure to check the orientation of the air outlet to the electric motor on the pump to make sure it matches yours.
It just occurred to me that my first step is to confirm that the "gear-like" noise I here for a few seconds after a cold start, is indeed the air pump.

Almost has to be, but I should:

Unplug the pump or find the fuse for it and pull the fuse, then start the car cold and see if the sound goes away.

Make sense?
chhs1950 is offline  
post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-30-2015, 08:51 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: 97SL500R129, 01ML320W163, 94E320W124 & 93500EW124
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 2,921
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chhs1950 View Post
...
I've always got a P0410 code since I got it around 2006. It's the only code that ever shows on my moderate-level scanner.

I know there is a problem, I think anyhow, with the electric air pump. Whenever I start the car there is, for 10 seconds or so, (Until the RPM drops to 600-700) a "gear like" sound. I have reported that sound to some indies and they say it's nothing. I was worried that it related to a camshaft shifter at first but when I got a better scanner it began reporting the P0410 code.

...other folks have commented on replacing the pump, some say it's easy, others say it's hard. More than that, the cost of a rebuild pump is sort of high.

If anyone has a random thought please feel free to correct me or offer some suggestions.
Code P0410 refers to secondary air system fault. However, it's not only the air pump that may be defective. I solved my P0410 years ago by understanding the Secondary air system that led me to properly test the system and find the solution.

Upon initial cold start the air pump blows air to the exhaust manifold which makes the exhaust gas appears lean. The lean mixture is read by the O2 sensor and signals the ECU to enrich the mixture. This process is done to heat-up the cats quickly. After the first air pump cycle, and the cats warmed up, the air pump will blow air again to test the system. This is the reason why after initial start the engine hesitates and smooth out and hesitates again and then continues to smooth idle. If the ECU fails to receive a lean signal from the O2 sensor after 3 self tests the CEL would turn on and would throw a P0410 DTC.

Test the secondary air pump by applying direct current to the pump and see if it blows air, test the relays, test the switch-over valves and check all hoses. If every thing checked o.k., replace the O2 sensors.

I solved my P0410 by replacing the O2 sensors. I didn't suspect the O2 sensors because I just replaced them a few months back. It turned out the first set of O2 sensors were defective (lazy O2 sensors, as AAM called them.)

Thoroughly check the systems components first before replacing anything.

Good luck.
boydm likes this.

Last edited by edcarls; 05-30-2015 at 08:53 AM.
edcarls is offline  
post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-30-2015, 09:12 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: 97SL500R129, 01ML320W163, 94E320W124 & 93500EW124
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 2,921
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Worse case scenario; secondary air passage is blocked and fresh air was unable to make the exhaust gas lean. Cleaning the air ports (per dealer recommendation) entails cylinder head removal. So, others resort to chemical cleaners such as Seafoam.

I my search to solve my P0410 problem I found a way to override the system by using relays and diodes to fool the O2 sensor to read a lean mixture when the air pump operates. Luckily I solved my problem without using this extreme measures.
edcarls is offline  
post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-30-2015, 11:11 AM
BenzWorld Veteran
 
Date registered: Feb 2015
Vehicle: 1998 SL500, 1999 ML320
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 634
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Secondary Air Pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by edcarls View Post
Code P0410 refers to secondary air system fault. However, it's not only the air pump that may be defective. I solved my P0410 years ago by understanding the Secondary air system that led me to properly test the system and find the solution.

Upon initial cold start the air pump blows air to the exhaust manifold which makes the exhaust gas appears lean. The lean mixture is read by the O2 sensor and signals the ECU to enrich the mixture. This process is done to heat-up the cats quickly. After the first air pump cycle, and the cats warmed up, the air pump will blow air again to test the system. This is the reason why after initial start the engine hesitates and smooth out and hesitates again and then continues to smooth idle. If the ECU fails to receive a lean signal from the O2 sensor after 3 self tests the CEL would turn on and would throw a P0410 DTC.

Test the secondary air pump by applying direct current to the pump and see if it blows air, test the relays, test the switch-over valves and check all hoses. If every thing checked o.k., replace the O2 sensors.

I solved my P0410 by replacing the O2 sensors. I didn't suspect the O2 sensors because I just replaced them a few months back. It turned out the first set of O2 sensors were defective (lazy O2 sensors, as AAM called them.)

Thoroughly check the systems components first before replacing anything.

Good luck.
Thanks,

Since the car will be at the Dealer on Tuesday I can just have them look at the pump situation. It is possible, based on your comments, that the pump is still pumping while making that noise and there is an issue with the sensors.

The only thing that I can say, other than the code, is that the pump makes a gear-like grinding noise during the 10 seconds it takes for the starting RPM to drop down to the normal 600-700 RPM. I assume that's when the pump stops running because the noise stops then. Also, no such noise when starting a warm engine.

I still haven't gotten around to un-plugging the pump cable at the pump, or removing the proper fuse, to see whether that noise during initial start is actually the pump itself. Sort of seems that it would be, but with all the convulated engineering used by MB anything is possible.

I did look at costs for used pumps and have some concern, but on the other hand, I'm not in a position to buy a new or rebuilt pump. If MB says the situation is not doing any damage to the car in the past 8 years I'll put pump repair/replacement on the list for future work.

I should add one more comment. Ever since I've had the car, it has a slight hesitation every 10 seconds or so, when idling in gear, even when warmed up. No one has been able to diagnose that. The problem goes away and I have a smooth idle if the transmission is not in gear, i.e. no real load on the engine.

Thanks,

DAW
chhs1950 is offline  
post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-30-2015, 12:00 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: 97SL500R129, 01ML320W163, 94E320W124 & 93500EW124
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 2,921
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chhs1950 View Post
1)... the pump makes a gear-like grinding noise during the 10 seconds it takes for the starting RPM to drop down to the normal 600-700 RPM. I assume that's when the pump stops running because the noise stops then. Also, no such noise when starting a warm engine.

2)... the situation is not doing any damage to the car in the past 8 years I'll put pump repair/replacement on the list for future work.

3)... Ever since I've had the car, it has a slight hesitation every 10 seconds or so, when idling in gear, even when warmed up. No one has been able to diagnose that. The problem goes away and I have a smooth idle if the transmission is not in gear, i.e. no real load on the engine.
1.) The secondary air pump turns on a few seconds only on initial cold start. With warm engine there is no need to warms up the cats so the secondary air pump process is not needed.

2.) Faulty secondary air system is harmful only to the environment and no harm is done to the engine. Its main purpose is to heat-up the cats quickly so it can perform its function to clean the exhaust gas immediately.

3.) The slight hesitation may be due to the secondary air system's self test which makes air/fuel adjustments during the testing cycle. After the test the idle will smooth out until the ECU performs another test. In my experience the test cycle will continue until the ECU sensed that the system is working properly.

Last edited by edcarls; 05-30-2015 at 12:03 PM.
edcarls is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Roadster Forums > R129 SL-Class

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
CEL code P0410 Down South W210 E50 AMG, E55 AMG 5 03-19-2009 09:49 AM
CEL and code P0410 Shore R170 SLK-Class 19 11-21-2008 12:43 PM
Question on CEL & ODBII Code P0452 heynavt1 C208/A208 CLK-Class 4 08-23-2008 09:17 AM
OBD II Code:P0170 & P0410 solved with new fuel filter! MOS500 W140 S-Class 12 06-21-2008 12:06 AM
CEL Error Code P2017 P2086 dko888 W220 S-Class 5 05-01-2006 07:43 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 

Title goes here

close
video goes here
description goes here. Read Full Story
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome