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Lowering the R129 standard suspension

554K views 1K replies 200 participants last post by  Chicky 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello there, I just installed the AMG 18' rims on my 92' 500SL but it needs to be lower, it is just to height, does anybody know the best way to go about it, I heard that MB have a 'height adjustment shims' that vary in height from 8mm to 25mm, should I just replace the shims with a thinner one or just go with new springs. Also, which would be the correct size to lower the car about 1.5'
 
#846 ·
Decided to get the Bilstein struts at Auto Parts Warehouse. After inputting my information I get two part numbers but believe this is the correct one.

Bilstein W0133-1910727 Shock Absorber and Strut Assembly
$117.95
Part #: W0133-1910727*|*Mfr #: W0133-1910727
Please see 1994-2002 Mercedes SL500 Strut Assembly - Suspension - Bilstein, Front 94-02 SL500 Strut Assembly - W0133-1910727 - PartsGeek

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1998/mercedes/sl500/suspension/strut_assembly.html

Bilstein will probably not comment on any other p/n than there own.

F4-V36-0232-H0 = old p/n
22-002327 = new p/n
 
#850 ·
Lowering the R129 non-hydraulic suspension

Hi Guys, I just had the strut mounts and Sachs struts installed yesterday, now the car sits approx. 1.5-2" higher at the front end. Now the car almost seems lower at the rear (I'm not diggin' that.) Just wondering where the "lift" came from. Can new struts lift the car higher, or is it the new strut-mounts? ...What happened was, I had my indy check for a rattle type noise in the suspension. He checked the front-end and reported back saying that both of the mounts had a few cracks in them and had to be replaced. I had them replaced. The rattle was still there. He said my struts were also dead. I bought 2 Sachs struts and he installed them. Now the car is sitting too high, especially as my '92 is riding on 18" AMGs and looked much better before with the fender sitting just above the tire. Can someone explain what may have happened that inceased the height so drastically?:eek:
Cheers
 
#851 ·
Hi Guys, I just had the strut mounts and Sachs struts installed yesterday, now the car sits approx. 1.5-2" higher at the front end. Now the car almost seems lower at the rear (I'm not diggin' that.) Just wondering where the "lift" came from. Can new struts lift the car higher, or is it the new strut-mounts?
Didn't come from the new Strut Mounts. The new ride height is normal from what I've seen in the past due to the new Struts since your old ones have settled over time.

The fix is to add a set of H&R lowering springs if you like the ride height that you once had.
 
#854 ·
I'm really surprized at how much the front end lifted with the new struts n' mounts... wished I had taken a "before" shot to show you how much lower it sat. I was going to wait until I had finished the complete revitalization (April) before taking photos of it but wanted to hear your thoughts on the ride height... Thanks again!
1992 Mercedes Benz 500SL | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
If those are the after shots the car doesn't look bad to me. In fact it looks pretty normal in comparison to what a 1999-2002 with low mileage looks like at the front fender gap. please see the before and after H&R Springs of the following 1995.
 

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#856 ·
IIRC these are gas-charged struts. The gas can and does leak out over time, and fresh struts will add a bit of lift, though what you're talking about seems rather extreme.

Perhaps the springs are not fully seated in the pads as well; that could add a little in height, too. You might check with the shop, though I'd agree with Lynns that yours looks pretty normal.

That said, too many MBs seem to ride high in the front, at least to my eye. My W210 did as well, and it was really visible after going to a larger wheel with a narrower profile. I thus put mild lowering springs only on the front, and it has a very mild rake to it now.

Good luck.
 
#857 ·
Thanks guys for the fantastic posts! I must admit that I dropped the ball when it comes to making sure the part numbers were correct to my car when I 'jumped' to grab the parts the indy said he needed. I just ordered (through my parts manager) with my vin#. I was given the choice of strut manufacturers, so I went with Sachs. I ordered the mounts right from the local MB parts counter (again by the vin#). I see by lynns awesome posts that my car is pretty much sitting as it would have been OE. The photos of the car with the H&R springs is how my car looked before. Everyone at my shop thought (as did I) that the car was lowered. Wow, pretty strange anomoly! Anyway, still love the car with a passion and if in a couple of months I'm still not happy with it's stance, I'll start looking into how much work is involved in the changeover to H&Rs. You guyz are the best! Cheers.:thumbsup:
 
#858 ·
thanks but i want hd's and those h&r springs where should i go for new ones? of both
1) my H&R Springs came from an eBay seller for $271.00 w/ shipping but you can get a set from eBay - H&R SPORT SPRINGS 90-02 MERCEDES R129 300SL 500SL 29853

2) all 4 of my Bilstein HD's were bought on a "Special" for $355.00 w/ ship from Rusty, 1-800-741-5252

Front struts p/n F4-V36-0232-H0 old p/n
Rear shocks p/n F4-B36-1316-H1 old p/n

3) I bought the rest of my misc. rubber parts from either Parts.com or AutohausAZ.com

2 each front strut mounts, p/n 1243200473 from AutohausAZ.com

4) Because the front shims/rear buffers are so inexpensive you can buy them from your local MB dealership.
2 each #1 shims for the front, p/n 2013210984.
2 each #3 shims for the rear, p/n 2013251144.

Note: there's only a 5 mm difference from one shim size to the next. So this is NOT the way to lower the car.

2 each strut Foam Bump Stops, p/n 1293230744.
2 each strut rubber boots, p/n 1293230192

5) Alignment
 
#860 ·
what do the shims do some people use #1 all around i read and thank you
Where sorta getting OFF TOPIC so I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with the following http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r12...9-non-hydraulic-suspension-4.html#post2257675 that comes from the 4th Blue Sticky at the top of the R129 Forum.

FWIW, the shims are also known as buffers and they are placed between the top of the metal spring and the metal spring cup to act like a cushion. If you go to the above link you will see pictures, p/n's, and old pricing for each of the sizes that are available.
 
#861 ·
if in a couple of months I'm still not happy with it's stance, I'll start looking into how much work is involved in the changeover to H&Rs.
If you get yourself a new set of soft tires and change to H&R's you'll appreciate the reduction in body roll when cornering and overall improvement in suspension performance in such a heavy, 4200 lb, car and as time moves on the ride cushions out as well but still maintains the performance. BTW, so far I've not needed a Rear Custom Camber Kit (like Dostrix) because I believe H&R knew what they were doing by only lowering the car to meet MB specs. When I aligned my car it was right on the edge. And if you want to make sure that you don't get inner tire wear simply inflate the rear tires from 36 PSI>40 PSI.
 
#862 ·
Using my vin number F 168143 I got the MB strut # from the bahas website , which now is booked marked.

129 320 14 30

I didn't get an email reply from Bilstein for the conversion of the MB strut part number-
129 320 14 30

to a W013 - 1801932 or 1910727 number

The W0133 strut numbers are what Auto Hausa AZ, Parts Geek and Auto Parts Warehouse sell for about $120 ea. for my 98 SL500

Bilstein website only gives the conversion from the MB 129 320 14 30 to their part number - 22-002327 which is the same as Lynns posted earlier.

Not being able to determine which W0133 number corresponds to*Bilstein 22-002327, I looked for sellers only using that number. Most were priced $200 plus. Then I found e shock.
E shock has Bilstein *22-002327 struts for $134ea., more *than W0133 but at least I know its the correct matching part to MB # 129 320 14 30
 
#863 ·
#864 ·
Yea, I posted eShocks back at post #26.

You made the right decision. Good luck!
Thanks Lynns, ordered both front and rear strut/shocks from eShocks

**2ea. 22-002327 *94-02*SL500 - Production Series SL R129*-*Bilstein Touring Class*Front*Strut Assembly *$133.75 *$267.50 *
**2ea. *24-013161 *94-02*SL500 - Production Series SL R129*-*Bilstein Touring Class*Rear*Shock *$89.75 *$179.50 *

Sub Total - $447.00
Shipping **$0.00
Total - $447.00
 
#867 ·
Lynns,

My SL has tolerable negative camber. But, my 500E is around neg. 2 so I'll install the shortened LCA to my 500E. And I'll be glad to post the installation procedures and the before and after camber reading. It may be helpful to those SL owners with SLS. I'll take pictures of the actual before and after camber reading on my manual caster/camber gauge.

Ed
 
#869 ·
Hi lynns,

With regards to the question of "abnormal inner tire wear", I can hardly notice, as I've only done about 6ooo kms. on my Dunlop 275's at the rear, since I bought them '06.

Now, as to why I went with RDMtek, I met Austin, the son of the owner of RDMtek, while on a trip to No. Calif. about 2007, and we had a discussion on the camber correction kits they made. I planned to buy the front and rear kits, but had to postpone as I had more urgent need of other restoration parts for my SL, since I'm nearly done with my shopping list now, I am just keeping my word, on buying.

I plan to keep my car long, actually to even pass it off to the kids, that's why it doesn't bother me that I have to go thru the extra effort of doing what I think is right. Case in point, I ordered, re-painted to urethane paint, splash shields for my SA calipers (refurbished with new kits and paint) and rotors (new).

I make fun of myself in this forum, as being o/c...there's some truth to it :D
 
#870 ·
Now, as to why I went with RDMtek, I met Austin, the son of the owner of RDMtek, while on a trip to No. Calif. about 2007, and we had a discussion on the camber correction kits they made. I planned to buy the front and rear kits, but had to postpone as I had more urgent need of other restoration parts for my SL, since I'm nearly done with my shopping list now, I am just keeping my word, on buying.
Interesting. I had a phone conversation with Austin back some time ago, when they actually had a web site, and I wasn't impressed with his desire to answer questions with regard to the 5 mm shortened LCA's. He didn't sound like he really wanted any additional business unless it was in a group purchase. In fact it sounded like he was doing me a favor. So I walked. I guess that's why the web site is no longer up.

In any case I wish you well with your purchase and install and hope your alignment gives you what your looking for.

For the most part I'm listening to the other guys that have gone before me like Alex, Mike, and others that have lowered there cars and not had any rear inner tire wear complaints.

I was quoted $130.00 labor by my Indy to install a set of adjustable camber arms. So with the cost of the arms at $260.00 to include ship and $130.00 labor plus a $50.00 alignment check = $440.00 total. That's almost what a set of rear tires would cost me. So I find it hard to justify the rear camber kit solution unless I see a tire wear problem. FWIW, my last alignment showed my rear camber to meet MB specs.

Regards, Lynn
 
#872 · (Edited)
Are these all the same? Each website has a slightly different product description. If the struts are identical, then which is the best site to purchase from? Thanks.
Don't worry about what p/n's that the part houses associate with the struts/shocks. Buy the following Bilstein p/n's at the best price that you can get them for. Try a Google of the old and new p/n alone and look for free shipping

2 each (old p/n) F4-V36-0232-H0 front struts (new p/n) 22-002327
2 each (old p/n) F4-B36-1316-H1 rear shocks (new p/n) 24-013161
 
#873 ·
Lowering the R129 non-hydraulic suspension

Any recommendations for the best spring shim/buffer combination to use with stock suspension?

My car sits rather high compared to most R129s I see. It would look much better if it was a little lower.

From what I have been able to learn from this forum, I understand that MB decided to put thicker shims in from 00 to 02 to lessen the occurrences of people scraping the bumper on steep ramps/curbs.

My 01 is going into the shop for front end work next week, and I'm considering getting the mechanics to change the spring shims at the same time.

There are some long threads about ride height that make recommendations on which front and rear shims to use, and there seems to be some consensus for #1 (8mm) in front and #3 (18mm) in back, but they are often descibed along with other aftermarket lowering springs, so I don't know if the same recommendation applies to the stock springs.

The springs are positioned roughly halfway between the wheel centerline and the control arm pivot point, therefore the ride height difference should be close to twice the shim thickness. So, if my front shims are currently 23mm (I could reach into the spring cavity and feel them when I had the car up to change the strut mounts) and I change them to 8mm, it should drop the ride height about an inch. Does that make sense?

Picture attached
 

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#874 ·
Hi dbischoff, I just went through this after buying my first R129 last month. I had new struts and strut mounts installed which raised the car much higher than it was when I bought the car. Then through much research and assistance from Benzworld members I was made aware that the car is in fact now at the factory height. So, last weekend I had the #2 shims removed and the #1 shims installed but the car remained at "exactly" the same height. Many folks have suggested that the new struts, mounts and shims will settle down in time but I don't think they'll drop down an inch or two in the near future so I'm quite sure that you'd have to install H&R or Eibach lowering springs to acheive a lower stance. Although I'm not technically proficient when it comes to the science of springs, I'm going to guess that the spring simply extends to meet the thinner shim. Just a guess.
Cheers!
 
#875 ·
Hi dbischoff, I just went through this after buying my first R129 last month. I had new struts and strut mounts installed which raised the car much higher than it was when I bought the car. Then through much research and assistance from Benzworld members I was made aware that the car is in fact now at the factory height. So, last weekend I had the #2 shims removed and the #1 shims installed but the car remained at "exactly" the same height. Many folks have suggested that the new struts, mounts and shims will settle down in time but I don't think they'll drop down an inch or two in the near future so I'm quite sure that you'd have to install H&R or Eibach lowering springs to acheive a lower stance. Although I'm not technically proficient when it comes to the science of springs, I'm going to guess that the spring simply extends to meet the thinner shim. Just a guess.
Cheers!
Wow, that seems wierd. Actually two things seem wierd:

1) The struts don't bear any weight, they are just shock absorbers, so I can't imagine how they can change the ride height.
2) The springs will compress to a point where they are holding the weight of the car, and it seems to me that the compressed length, when the car is at rest, should always be the same. So I can't imagine how changing the spacer between the top of the spring and the car frame can NOT change the ride height.

I must be missing something.

But, the reason MB has different depth shims is specifically for adjusting ride height, even if it is primarily for correcting unevenness. Isn't that true?

BTW do you know how much labor went into swapping the shims?
 
#876 ·
As dbischoff mentioned, changing the shim WILL change the ride height... NOT BY INCHES, but by exactly what the shim difference is...

The spring (and each spring in the world) is rated by LBs/In, that is a number that tells us a given spring will be an inch shorter, if you put x pounds on top of it. if the spring burls are equal in size and shape, then the spring is said to be linear; it will keep the same rate; put X pounds, and it gets shorter by 1 inch, put 2x on it, and it gets 2 inches shorter, and so on...

The merc springs are linear. since the body weight is not changing, the compressed height of the spring under the body weight DOES NOT CHANGE, let’s call it "H"... now if you wedge a shim "S" between the spring and the chassis, your overall compressed height of the spring will be "H+S"...

Difference in height for the most part in R129 that I’ve seen over the years is caused by using the wrong shock part number, because R129 used many confusing part numbers for shocks, and they were not changed based on model year, but rather, by VIN.

Many vendors are unaware of this fact, and sell shocks as one size fits all, and cause these issues with consumers...

When a shock of the wrong rating is used, specially when brand new, it could have enough internal gas pressure that bears weight, and makes really easy to lift the car up...

I know many are confused, thinking how can a shock lift a 2000 pound corner of a car? but remember, the shock is doing it with the help of the spring, thats already compressed, and pushing the body up...

to put in prospective, I am sure we all bragged to our friends when we were kids that we can lift our dad's car... if you remember, a ten years old can easily lift a car's body 1-2 inches up... because of the help of the spring... it is one thing to lift the body up an inch or two (suprisingly small number of Lbs force, 20-30lbs!) and its completely another to lift the wheel off the ground (2000 pounds)

So, yes! the wrong shock does have enough tention (gas pressure) to lift the car up an inch...
 
#878 ·
Hi dbischoff, I can only convey my results as an observer as I'm surely unable to give you any technical specs regarding thinner shims on the front springs. I do know however that I shouldn't have bothered replacing a #2 shim for a #1 shim as a 5mm difference in thickness is certainly not going to lower the front end by any measurable height. On Saturday morning I measured the distance (straight up the center of the wheel) from the ground to the highest point of the fender well and it measured 26.3". On Saturday afternoon upon returning from the installation it again measured 26.3". I certainly could have been off a .10th of an inch or so, but that became irrelevant as I was hoping to at least lower the front end a "little" but my shim installation did nothing to visually change the height. It's all good 'cause I need to be spending my money on new distributor caps and rotors! Hope ya have better luck than I did, maybe you have #3 or #4 shims which might make a difference when installing #1s!
Cheers!
 
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