While I was replacing the water pump I decided to replace the timing chain guides, sprockets and chain since I had most of the stuff out of the way. I was putting in the last driver side upper guide pin with a hammer and small metal 1.5" dowel when the dowel jumped and fell into the distributor opening. I could hear the clink clink sound as it fell down behind the timing chain cover and most likely into the sump. idiot me had a rag in that opening for the last 3 days and decided to pull it to do some cleaning up. The manual was not clear to me as to the oil plumbing/flow but I think there is a pick up screen in the sump and I should be ok. My first thought is just leave it there as it will not get through the screen. Is there any reason to worry if the dowel is rolling around the sump or should I prioritize getting that thing outta there before I fire up the car?
Yep, the oil pan is full. Not sure what my chances are of it getting rolling down to the drain hole if I change the oil. It is currently on ramps so maybe that would increases the odds........ Maybe I should just wait until it's ready for an oil change in ~2000 miles and take my chances. If there is a strainer/screen I should be ok.........yes?
Ok......I'll drain the oil and if it doesn't come out I will put a borescope in the drain hole with a small hook or magnet to see if I can hopefully find it and retrieve. It is 1.5" long and slightly smaller than the diameter of the timing chain guide rail pin threads.
Did you mean down the hole that it fell through? Might be worthwhile, but lot's of steel parts that the magnet could stick to. A thin borescope might be worth trying down the distributor hole, but is there a straight passage down past the gears? Through drain hole might work if pickup can be bent so it can 'scan' the bottom of the sump.
If the pin is in the lower pan, and the pan is aluminum, it might be possible to use a strong magnet against the pan and drag the pin close to the drain hole (after first draining). Bit hit or miss, so knowing where pin is with borescope would help.
I'll try my borescope from the top first through the distributor passage. Hopefully it fits. Not sure if the end of my borescope will fit in the oil drain hole. The pin is stainless steel so it's hit or miss on if a magnet would work. If you look at the pic there's really nothing in the way between the distributor gear hole and the sump unless it hung up on the timing chain cover which is doubtful. So I probably won't see it if it's sitting in 10 qts of oil. Is there a screen on the oil pick up port in the sump?
If you look at the pic there's really nothing in the way between the distributor gear hole and the sump unless it hung up on the timing chain cover which is doubtful. So I probably won't see it if it's sitting in 10 qts of oil.
Some time ago, I took this pic on my 72 M117 engine. It does't look as though there is anything in the way. Is that the pan at bottom or the chain cover? It's probably in sump, but it would be a good idea to get it over near drain and try and remove. Didn't know those pins were S/S, but not likely non-magnetic types which are not as strong.
This might sound silly but did you view it go down this hole, or just thinking it did ?. Just look on the floor around the base of the engine just in case it just fell to the floor. If you are right, and it did fall right down in to the sump remove the oil and get your bore scope in the drain hole to fish it out .It happens to all of use .You know its like as if there is some one next to you that dont want you to do the job. Good luck- you will get it out .
When we dropped the oil pan to get the front plate off in order to replace the lower guides, we found half of one of the uppers in the sump. Yikes! But I also noticed that, yes, the oil pickup DOES have a screen on it.
I couldn't get my borescope through the top. The diameter is too big to fit. It definitely fell in........I saw it sitting beside the the distributor gear and when I tried to grab it with my retrieval tool....POOF. Next step is to drain the oil. One of the threaded holes for my thermostat housing in my reman water pump is all focked up.....it came that way as I could not thread the bolt in with my fingers. Tried a tap and lost too much material to get a good bite. Time for a helicoil kit but I'm gonna need to find one with a long enough drill bit to get down to the back left bolt. I really don't wanna pull the water pump back off....uggg. My back is hurting...time for a long break.
For what it’s worth,
I dropped the u-shaped chain-lock lock when I replaced the timing chain on my 560sl 2 years ago. It fell into to netherworld of the oil pan.
Never seen or heard from again.
So far, so good.........
In my 35 years of working on Mercedes I have seen several oil pumps get destroyed from sucking foreign objects through the screen on the pick up tube. I may not happen today or tomorrow but the odds are that eventually that pin will get sucked through the screen and into the pump and could cause catastrophic damage to the engine.
I would suggest draining the oil and fishing around with a strong flexible magnetic probe to try and retrieve the pin, it will be time well spent. You may want to blow compressed air down the dist hole to get the pin down into the pan for better fishing results.
Initially that is how it looks. After said object swirls around in the pick up it will eventually weaken the screen and get sucked into the pump. I have personally seen it happen on more than one occasion. I've seen plastic bits from the rails get sucked through the screen.
It's a gamble to leave things in the oil pan. How lucky do you feel???
Hey Robert, fully agree with you - driving with bits in the oil sump is a little bit like holding a grenade with the pin removed in your hand... it's a gamble! However the idea of removing the engine or dropping the subframe to get access to the oil sump isn't fancy either. Here's hoping the bits can be retrieved via the drain!
Yeah, as large as the drain plug is on that engine he has a pretty good chance of fishing it out. It may take some time but that's how it goes sometimes.
I've spent a lot of time looking for bolts and such dropped in the engine compartment while working on an engine. It's not the most efficient use of time when you're working flat rate but you have to do what you have to do!
I suggested he use a magnet to try and fish it out. The drain plug hole on his engine is 26mm so that is a good thing in this situation. The worse thing would be to not try at all to get it out.
Hopefully silence is good news in this case.. I started the chain replacement today and I'm being super uber ultra careful not to drop anything into the abyss - I'm using thick cardboard with cutouts for the chain only, plus magnetic trays just in case I drop a circlip etc.
Yes it ok thinking this, but would you or anyone on here just let it lie in there . I know i would not,, it would have to come out for me so i could smash it to bits with a large coal hammer..
If the choice was down to just letting it lie and pulling the pan. I would just leave it. But of course I would do everything I could to try and get it out.
I'm still here and will post an update when I drain the oil. I currently have family in town and am trying to work through a coolant leak post water pump replacement. The water pump and timing chain rebuild were done simultaneously.
Yes, I ran it after the pin got lost to check for coolant leaks noted in my other thread. I'm thinking it's in the sump as well. I'm gonna drain the oil tomorrow morning and have a peak. Bringing the fam to the horse races in Saratoga today.......awesome venue!
I know it was flogged ad-nauseam, the use of magnets and non-magnetic stainless steel dowel pin...
but
it is likely that the SS dowel pin is cold rolled thus it becomes somewhat magnetic.
Best results _possibly_ lie in use of a rare earth magnet. PLain magnet will do nuttin. Rare Earth Magnets come free from old hard drives (watch your fingers) and have effect even on plain SS.
This magnet will not transfer its magnetism through the oil plug metal but could be glued onto the bottom of the pan, close to the plug. If you're lucky... play the Lotto immediately.
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