Advice on changing single row chain? - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
frazierfrazier's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2009
Vehicle: 1981 380SL
Location: baltimore
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weather Man View Post
Well, we found half of one of the guides in the sump, it had broken off one of the uppers and drifted down w/o hanging up any of the sprockets.
Seems like luck was in your side the day that guide broke! I was wondering about the guides deeper inside the engine. I guess the ďquick and dirtyĒ method of feeding the chain and fishing out guides is better than nothing at all.
frazierfrazier is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 01:41 PM
It Is What It Is, Dude
 
isthisdave's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2006
Vehicle: 1978 107.024 RIP
Location: InTransition
Posts: 22,774
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazierfrazier View Post
Haha itís true, they did. Does anyone actually know why they went with a single row for 3 years? Is there any logical explanation? Why manufacture shittier/lesser parts when you have something (dual row) that works just fine?

It was during the transition from iron to alloy blocks and they thought further weight savings on US smog motors just might make up for the lack of compression. I mean, every little bit, right?



Or so it's been said.
isthisdave is online now  
post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
frazierfrazier's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2009
Vehicle: 1981 380SL
Location: baltimore
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Can someone tell me if this is normal? When I turn the engine over by hand, the length of chain that runs between the top side of the two cams and through the guide wheel gets slack, then when I give it another turns, everything is tight again. The length of chain that runs across the distributor and crankshaft sprockets stays pretty taught, with very slight play on some rotations. Timing marks are all pretty spot on.

Did the guides and tensioner today. Getting those cam sprockets off was damn near impossible... but I persevered, lol. Chain tomorrow provided the chain riveting tool comes in!
frazierfrazier is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 05:09 PM
It Is What It Is, Dude
 
isthisdave's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2006
Vehicle: 1978 107.024 RIP
Location: InTransition
Posts: 22,774
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
.



Yeah, you're fighting compression kick back and the cams' spring tensions and your tensioner has no hydraulic pressure. Carry on.
isthisdave is online now  
post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 05:16 PM
Premium Member
 
Jyuma's Avatar
 
Date registered: May 2017
Vehicle: 1983 380 SL
Location: Long Island, New York USA
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Quoted: 759 Post(s)
Premium Member
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazierfrazier View Post
Can someone tell me if this is normal? When I turn the engine over by hand, the length of chain that runs between the top side of the two cams and through the guide wheel gets slack, then when I give it another turns, everything is tight again. The length of chain that runs across the distributor and crankshaft sprockets stays pretty taught, with very slight play on some rotations. Timing marks are all pretty spot on.

Did the guides and tensioner today. Getting those cam sprockets off was damn near impossible... but I persevered, lol. Chain tomorrow provided the chain riveting tool comes in!
I assume you are only turning the engine clockwise by hand... if so then the tension on the chain between the two cam sprockets may at times appear to become slack if one or more of the valves on the passenger side are past the full open position. In that case the springs on the individual cam lobes will be exerting force on the cam to continue to rotate and without the chain tensioner taking up the slack the chain between the two cam sprockets may appear to go slightly slack.

You can expect to observe this in a far more dramatic manner when you are feeding the new chain and the other end of the old chain is no longer attached. The new chain may actually snap forward as the valve spring pushes the cam clockwise and there is no chain behind to stop it. Just make sure you keep at least two tie wraps clamping the new chain tightly to the cam sprocket when you are rotating the crank. You don't want the new chain to skip a link by accident.

Good luck.

Nobody gets out of this life alive.
Jyuma is offline  
post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
frazierfrazier's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2009
Vehicle: 1981 380SL
Location: baltimore
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Thanks Jyuma, that does make sense. And yes, clockwise by hand is how I’ve been doing it.

I’m aware that by leaving the rocker arms on while feeding the new chain I will experience that spring tension in a more “dramatic” way. Will leaving the spark plugs in (compression) lessen this effect?

Also, in addition to using the cable ties on the new chain, I plan to have a friend hold the old chain and keep some tension on it. Is this necessary? My fear was that by leaving the old chain slack, I could skip a tooth at the crank.

I noticed in Panzerpuff’s video, he would feed the chain in and let the old one fall to the floor, but it did seem to be bunching up inside the engine SOMEWHERE... spooky.
frazierfrazier is offline  
post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:04 PM
Premium Member
 
Jyuma's Avatar
 
Date registered: May 2017
Vehicle: 1983 380 SL
Location: Long Island, New York USA
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Quoted: 759 Post(s)
Premium Member
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazierfrazier View Post
Thanks Jyuma, that does make sense. And yes, clockwise by hand is how Iíve been doing it.

Iím aware that by leaving the rocker arms on while feeding the new chain I will experience that spring tension in a more ďdramaticĒ way. Will leaving the spark plugs in (compression) lessen this effect?

Also, in addition to using the cable ties on the new chain, I plan to have a friend hold the old chain and keep some tension on it. Is this necessary? My fear was that by leaving the old chain slack, I could skip a tooth at the crank.

I noticed in Panzerpuffís video, he would feed the chain in and let the old one fall to the floor, but it did seem to be bunching up inside the engine SOMEWHERE... spooky.
Will leaving the spark plugs in (compression) lessen this effect? Not really, but it will make it easier to turn.

I don't think you have to worry that leaving the chain slack could skip a tooth at the crank. I believe the chain guides down there will prevent that, hopefully someone else will verify that, but I don't think Panzerpuff would have allowed the old chain to just hang if there was a chance of it skipping a tooth at the crank.
frazierfrazier likes this.

Nobody gets out of this life alive.
Jyuma is offline  
post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
frazierfrazier's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2009
Vehicle: 1981 380SL
Location: baltimore
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Well, the job was a success! Started right up and idles wonderfully. Canít drive it yet because I cross threaded a very expensive power steering hose that I will need to either use a thread chaser on or replace... oh well!

The most frustrating part was the INFERNAL rivet style master link. Why Iwis doesnít have a single row circlip style master link is downright stupid. I ended up pressing it together with large vice grips until the pins bottomed out on one side when connecting the new chain to the old chain. I used a flathead screwdriver to pry the link off. When connecting the new chain to itself, I ended up using a very heavy hammer as an anvil, and a large ballpeen hammer to make the river. Worked great, but if you do this be careful. My cam gears are not cast, but some are (I believe) and you could break them.

Other than that, it was about what I expected. Nothing too crazy and canít imagine it differs too much from the regular olí double row.
okyoureabeast likes this.
frazierfrazier is offline  
post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 07:31 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
okyoureabeast's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2017
Vehicle: 1984 380SL
Location: North America
Posts: 2,012
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 679 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by isthisdave View Post
.



Yeah, you're fighting compression kick back and the cams' spring tensions and your tensioner has no hydraulic pressure. Carry on.

Probably some engineer thought, "Hey we can save a few cents" because the compression was lower. I read somewhere about an automotive engineer who said that by saving a few cents on a design they get bonuses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by frazierfrazier View Post
Well, the job was a success! Started right up and idles wonderfully. Canít drive it yet because I cross threaded a very expensive power steering hose that I will need to either use a thread chaser on or replace... oh well!

The most frustrating part was the INFERNAL rivet style master link. Why Iwis doesnít have a single row circlip style master link is downright stupid. I ended up pressing it together with large vice grips until the pins bottomed out on one side when connecting the new chain to the old chain. I used a flathead screwdriver to pry the link off. When connecting the new chain to itself, I ended up using a very heavy hammer as an anvil, and a large ballpeen hammer to make the river. Worked great, but if you do this be careful. My cam gears are not cast, but some are (I believe) and you could break them.

Other than that, it was about what I expected. Nothing too crazy and canít imagine it differs too much from the regular olí double row.
Dang congrats bud.

Guess you can say you're apart of the "chain gang" now

Sadly you'll be seeing that bastard again in 25k miles.
frazierfrazier likes this.
okyoureabeast is online now  
post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
frazierfrazier's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2009
Vehicle: 1981 380SL
Location: baltimore
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by okyoureabeast View Post
Sadly you'll be seeing that bastard again in 25k miles.
Well, you bet your ass I wonít be doing the guides and tensioner after 25k! Feeding the chain was a breeze, and if I manage to find single row master links with circlips (I think I have), then that will make it that much easier. I personally didnít find it necessary to remove the spark plugs, but I did use a breaker bar and I had a friend hold the old chain just for peace of mind... and to bring the beer.
frazierfrazier is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Roadster Forums > R/C107 SL/SLC Class

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
Chain guides: Upper, or all with the timing cover off? liviu165 W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 11 02-06-2016 09:06 PM
Camshaft adjuster & timing chain removal; need advice samosali W140 S-Class 16 02-24-2014 11:36 PM
S600 camshaft sensor error after changing timing chain kerrman W140 S-Class 4 11-24-2013 03:06 AM
Timing Chain Help / Advice needed TBIAgent69 W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 13 03-14-2012 11:25 PM
Found double row timing chain mulewright W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 6 04-10-2011 11:10 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 

Title goes here

close
video goes here
description goes here. Read Full Story
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome