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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 06:16 AM
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$100 saved equals time well spent to me. Nice work.
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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$100 saved equals time well spent to me. Nice work.
I figured I'd check the odometer gears while I had the instrument cluster out and like Nobby once said... one thing leads to another when working on these cars.

I'm at work so no pictures but I'll post a few pictures when I get home. The gears were shot and the center chrome looking piece on the left group of gauges had fallen off and was laying in the bottom interfering with the movement of the economy needle. I took everything apart and it's all sitting on my bench waiting to be cleaned.

Thanks to Nobby's years old post about changing the odometer gears and refurbing the cluster, the rest of the job should go relatively smooth... emphasis on the word "relatively".

Update Here's the photo of the disintegrated gears. The small drive gear is gone completely... the larger gear is cracked. I think there's a third gear but I don't see it.

Directional dilemma-mercodometergears.jpg


Here's the gauge where the center chrome cover fell off... what kind of glue is used to reattach it.

Directional dilemma-mercgauge2.jpg Directional dilemma-mercgauge3.jpg

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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No joy on the directionals. Everything is new... flasher, all the bulbs, passenger side directional housing and socket, hazard switch and every bulb in the instrument cluster. When I turn on either the left or right directional, all four turn signals blink just like they should when you turn on the hazard switch. The hazard switch works normally.

Is it possible that AutohausAZ sent me the wrong turn signal flasher? Here is the number I received... flasher K.A.E 3.101.200

The hazard switch I got from eBay. It says OEM part number 000-820-90-10 but the box it came in just has 3471 written in magic marker. The website says MTC #: 3471.

The flasher that came out of the car is Bosch 0335 200 050. Here are pictures of the original from the front and bottom...

Directional dilemma-mercflasherfront.jpg Directional dilemma-mercflasherbottom.jpg

Here is a picture of the replacement flasher. Notice that it has 1 extra pin on the bottom. There is a pin marked "C" on the replacement that does not exist on the original.

Directional dilemma-mercreplacementflasher.jpg

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 06:33 PM
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No joy on the directionals. Everything is new... flasher, all the bulbs, passenger side directional housing and socket, hazard switch and every bulb in the instrument cluster. When I turn on either the left or right directional, all four turn signals blink just like they should when you turn on the hazard switch. The hazard switch works normally.

Is it possible that AutohausAZ sent me the wrong turn signal flasher? Here is the number I received... flasher K.A.E 3.101.200

The hazard switch I got from eBay. It says OEM part number 000-820-90-10 but the box it came in just has 3471 written in magic marker. The website says MTC #: 3471.

The flasher that came out of the car is Bosch 0335 200 050. Here are pictures of the original from the front and bottom...

Attachment 2466976 Attachment 2466978

Here is a picture of the replacement flasher. Notice that it has 1 extra pin on the bottom. There is a pin marked "C" on the replacement that does not exist on the original.

Attachment 2466980
Here is a post from @Walt Williams on how to fix the old flasher relay.
https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c...-repair-2.html
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a post from @Walt Williams on how to fix the old flasher relay.
https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c...-repair-2.html
Thanks but Walt's post says only flashers with the ic are repairable. My flasher does not contain an ic, instead it has 3 electrolytic capacitors and 2 transistors.

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 03:23 AM
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Thanks but Walt's post says only flashers with the ic are repairable. My flasher does not contain an ic, instead it has 3 electrolytic capacitors and 2 transistors.
I am surprised the flasher relays are different since your and Waltís car are both MY83ís. You probably can repair yours by just replacing the 3 capacitors.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 04:26 AM Thread Starter
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I am surprised the flasher relays are different since your and Waltís car are both MY83ís. You probably can repair yours by just replacing the 3 capacitors.
Yes, I already decided to replace the electrolytic caps but their values are obscured. I would assume they are 24v and at least 1000 mf (charge and discharge timebeing what they are). There are also 2 transistors (easy enough to change) and a few diodes and various resistors. Nothing overly complicated just a pain trying to figure the values. Resistors are no problem and 1980's transistors are easy enough to substitute but those pesky electrolytic caps are going to be tough. Anybody know the values?

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Forgive me for babbling (err, thinking out loud) but I can't see how the flasher can be the problem. My original flasher (see previous photo) has 3 terminals marked 31, 49 and 49a. Obviously 1 terminal would need to be the 12 volt supply (probably 31) and the other 2 would then be for left or right directional. Inasmuch as there are no other terminals on my original flasher, the internal workings cannot be any more complicated than applying the 12 volts from terminal 31 to either terminal 49 for one side or 49a for the other (via the directional stub position), while the relay in the flasher alternately disrupts the 12 volts at the blink rate. The problem I'm having is therefor more likely the result of some kind of problem with the hazard switch or associated wiring.

The hazard switch does not have it's own flasher, it uses the same flasher as the turn signals. The flasher has no way of differentiating between the turn signal input and the hazard switch so the determining factor of either blinking only the left side bulbs or the right side bulbs must be determined by the position of the hazard switch. Engaging the hazard switch must therefore be connecting the left and right turn signals together while the flasher only interrupts the power. The fact that the hazard switch has it's own fuse (#12 in the panel) may provide a hint to it's internal operation.

One possibility for why the hazard switch has it's own fuse might be because the hazard switch has two different voltage supplies. With the hazard switch in the off position the 12 volts fused by #5 is supplied to the flasher through a connection in the hazard switch and the flasher does it's only job of... for lack of a better term, flashing... but when the hazard switch is in the on position it breaks the 12 volts coming from fuse #5 and inserts the 12 volts coming from fuse #12. At the same time the hazard switch connects the wires coming from terminal 49 and 49a together. The flasher being totally unaware of the cross connections simply flashes as usual which now... due to the cross connections in the hazard switch... blinks all 4 turn signal bulbs instead of just left or right. When the hazard switch is put back to the "off" position, the connection between terminal 49 and 49a of the flasher is broken and the 12 volt supply is again routed through fuse #5.

Unless I am mistaken... the above explains all of the operations of the flasher and hazard switch in combination including why the directionals fail to operate with the hazard switch removed. It also explains why there are 8 wires in the hazard switch socket.

From the above I must conclude that I've got either a faulty (new) hazard switch or the wrong hazard switch.

Sorry for the babble but it helps me think.

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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 09:20 AM
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I may see the (or a) problem. Looking at your original 050 relay, what appears to be the "common" (ground) unmarked pin is located on the center edge of the relay. On your new relay, the common pin (pin "C") is located on the side edge, and there is a dummy (plastic) pin where the common is located on your original relay. You may want to check your connector to see if there is a terminal where the apparent original common plugs in. I would cross reference the other pin locations between the two relays as well, just to be sure that the correct pin connects with the right terminal. Maybe you can remove the common pin from the new relay, and transplant the common pin (and it's location) from your old relay into the new one, or transplant the new internals on to the original pin board. The remaining pins seem to line up, but again, should be cross referenced. You would wind up with a "Frankenstein relay", but if it works...

Also, out of curiosity I called autohaus, and asked if they had your "050" in stock. They said no. Entering "bosch 0335200050" on google, the places that came up showed out of stock. I found a NOS 050 relay on on ebay, but located in Germany. That listing just ended (18 mins. to go when I found it) without a buyer. Here is the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Blink...2c0F:rk:1:pf:0

FWIW, this relay was apparently used on at least some W123's, and by other german manufacturers as well, so you may be able to widen your search if you decide to go that route.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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@benztag I'm at the office right now so I can't physically check yet, but if I remember correctly the unmarked terminal in the center along the edge connects to nothing so I assume it's just a locator.

The generally accepted substitute flasher is the one I got from AutohausAZ, the primary difference being that the replacement has a pin marked "C" which I presume means common. I'll recheck when I get home but I believe there is no need for a common as the return to common (ground) is established by the position of the directional control. I'm guessing that the flasher relay is normally closed so when the directional stub is set for left or right it provides the path to ground. As current flows the flasher senses the current and opens the circuit in response which drops the current to zero which in turn starts the cycler again. Returning the directional stub to center removes the path to ground which ends the cycle.

I will verify the above via continuity checks when I get home. I'll post the results.

Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated.

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