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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Hello new member with penta question

Hi all. New member here from uk having just picked up my 88 300sl. Not being a fan of flat face wheels I ordered some penta (gen I ?) reps from here http://www.alfagiuliashop.eu staggered 8x16 at the front and 9x16 at the back et11 and 12 respectively. Backs go on fine. No way the fronts will fit. Obviously being an 88 I have a large caliper and it looks like I will need at least 20mm of spacer, possibly 30mm. I am surprised as I thought they would go with et 11. I have attached a pic of the wheel )they are lovely, well made and great for a daily driver) and my new ride. Hope to contribute going forward
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 06:14 PM
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Sorry, but you fell for a 100% noob mistake. You're going to very quickly find out the frustration and pain of owning a 107 if you don't stop now and take some time out to understand the technical differences between model years and models.

I do suggest you undertake some more detailed research before purchasing. get to know what your VIN means, and deal with MB Stuttgart classic centre directly.
Start with classic [email protected] on the MB website, and check out your 300SL. It shares much in common with the later v8's, but has the m103 and some very expensive model specific parts...
all post 09/85 manufactured 107's have a common, but different front subframe, LCA, spindle and brake assembly to the earlier vehicles.

This is what has caught you out.

The change is mostly due to the ABS becoming a standard fitment to all model variants, along with the new engine mechanical updates etc. A lot of driveline parts are shared with 126 (rear end except for subframe) and the front shares many adapted parts from w124, although not all interchangeable.
The 4 piston callipers, ABS, front hub changes, track increase, reduced scrub radius and change in wheel min diameter and offset all mentioned in the factory manuals are why your early offset pentas will not fit on the front. The brake calliper and rotor is the culprit. There is no clearance to run the gen 1 penta on the front. The gen 2 penta fits the front, but it will look very different to what you are expecting.

You're going to have to sell the Pentas, or take them back..

If you want pentas:
I suggest you seek HWA Asteroid wheels on FB. ( https://www.facebook.com/HWA-Asteroi...2333311123399/ )
Tell them I sent you. They will do you a set of pentas in a much more favourable 17" size with whatever width and offset you like.

It's tough news, and a hard lesson learned, but You'll soon get over it and won't make the same mistake twice....
nobby, Elmer Fudd and Currumbin SL like this.

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1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 2012 212.074 Klaus /// 1991 Range Rover Classic OM606.962/722.6 Oswald

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 09:21 PM
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Joe is correct.

The end.

But I like your choice in rims. Makes the 107 'pop'.

Your first post at Benzworld should have been: "I want Pentas for my 300SL....what should I look for?"

LOL....good luck...can't wait to see the end result.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-11-2018, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys

I knew the front end was different but I was assured these wheels would be fine so gambled......Should have trusted my instinct

What about hubcentric spacers? Had a lot of success with them in the past, Eibach and H&R are pretty bulletproof. Just need to work out the size
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018, 09:35 AM
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I had eibachs on my c280

so I could mount a set of w124 15 hole wheels I had knocking around. They worked just fine. You will need to get some longer bolts probably, and get them to the right length. which you then can't confuse with the rear bolts, otherwise you will chew up the handbrake mechanism.

I soon tired of all the do this, don't do that folderol everytime I took a wheel off, and found a set of w202 specific alloys for it instead.

I have Melber "penta-likes" on mine, with the correct ET25 fit for 7J 15inch wheels. but mine is a pre-facelift.

I don't know how much you shelled out for those lookers you have there, but the acid test has to be " who assured you they would fit ? " .
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Actin View Post
Thanks guys

I knew the front end was different but I was assured these wheels would be fine so gambled......Should have trusted my instinct

What about hubcentric spacers? Had a lot of success with them in the past, Eibach and H&R are pretty bulletproof. Just need to work out the size





If your instinct isn't screaming 'hell no' do yourself a favor and spend your money on a new one
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Actin View Post
Thanks guys

I knew the front end was different but I was assured these wheels would be fine so gambled......Should have trusted my instinct

What about hubcentric spacers? Had a lot of success with them in the past, Eibach and H&R are pretty bulletproof. Just need to work out the size
If Hub-centric spacers are legal in your country, then by all means H&R and Lorinser sell them iirc.

However, I believe you're then restricted to running some very oddball offsets to get the correct offset.

when your 300SL was delivered, it came with an ovaloid 15-hole wheel referred to as Gullideckel (manhole cover) because they eerily ressemble the manhole covers in Stuttgart.
Those wheels measure 15x7 ET25. They have a larger diamter to the pre 09/85 built 107's, because of the updated brakes, spindles, hubs and control arms.

To fit a wheel to match, you need to keep your offset appropriate for the width of the wheel (i.e. match the factory) to prevent rubing on the guards or swaybars.

Basically, you are looking at running a 16" rim in restricted offsets, due to the inability to put more tyre 'inside' (higher offset)- doing so results in less clearance to the LCA, UCA and swaybar. on the rear it is mostly the inner tub and the swaybar, which happens to be an integral part of the location of the rear hub. So rubbing is a big no-no on the rear bar.

when you up the diameter to 17", you gain more freedom, due to the inside diameter of the wheel offering more clearance. This means you can go to some higher offsets and tuck more wheel under the front.

Typically, you do not want to exceed something like a 17x8 ET28 on the front, because it reduces the scrub radius and makes the front a little more twitchy. You can go to 18's - I did for a while, but the huge wheel doesn't quite suit the car's styling. I ran some w211 E63 staggered rims and they rubbed when bottoming out under compression on the rear and on full lock on the front bar, quite a way forward on the front bar too, but the offset was ET35 and the tyres were WIDE.

For reference, the Penta offsets for Gen 2 are identical ET11 for the 16x8, but the entire centre is offset to accommodate the spacing for the calliper. They look 'interesting' and do not match well in a staggered set.

I understand your love of pentas. Most 107 owners agree they are a perfect period correct wheel. Genuine AMG Pentas are very rare to find these days and fetch stupid $. I recently offloaded my widebody set to a gentleman in Melbourne, and sold them for a fair bit less than I could have, but he has a widebody car to put them on, so he was a deserving custodian.

You have other options for period correct wheels. AMG Aero styling 1 monoblocks, in 16x7.5 ET17, or 17x8ET11 ( the 17's have a flat centre face, 16's are slightly curved).
AMG Aero styling 1 3pc staggered (OZ-Racing) in 17x8.5 ET18 front & 17x10 ET17 rear, or as an example I fitted later w210/211 AMG 5 spoke rim in 18x8 and 18x9 with an ET approx 35 - I don't recall exactly but pretty sure it was ET35 (can rub on the upper shoulder of the inner tub on rear under full bump and on the front bar at full lock, but you have to be at those extreme angles to notice)

Lorinser LO's - yep, but let me state at the outset... good luck finding a set. Also, the front is a problem, just like your pentas, because they did not manufacture the wheel with a suitably deep hub face to allow for the calliper clearance. Most people who are desperate to run these rims end up with spacers and gamble on that, but they never quite look right when in the wheel tub for some reason. I have not ever seen a set of the alleged 'ET23' fronts fit without spacers on the front of a 560, but there is rumour of this alleged rarity being the cure.

Once you go to 18" diameter, you alter a few things. You have clearance to just about run anything from an ET0 to ET35 depending on your chosen width, and you have pretty much taken care of the calliper clearance issue on the front, due to the nature of modern wheel manufacture. Not all rims will be suitable though, you need to take into account the actual overall mass of the wheel and tyre you are replacing, as unsprung mass increases on a 107 can be felt and are a negative handling trait overall, especially on bumpy roads.

Yes, pentas are cool. I even stuffed a 16x9 ET0 on the front of Lurch years ago and the 16x10 ET-12.7 on the rear, just for giggles. The rear err... yeah no chance without cutting a LOT of sheetmetal, but it could have been done...

Life can get interesting fitting wheels. Especially fitting the wheels you want. For a wheelwhore it can be an endless pursuit and you end up with dozens of 'spare' sets under your house, gathering dust - and ready for when you have a change of mind about how your car should look. It's also a lot of idle cash just sitting there unused.

There used to be a pretty good thread on here where people posted pics,(found: https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c...ol-wheels.html ) but I believe the demise of photofkit and imagefk etc put paid to the thread consistency. A Google search will pretty-much net you an apreciation of the many and varied R107 combinations people have shoved under the guards - not all are tasteful, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

Take a deep breath and be patient. You will find something that you really like, which fits without issue.

Current Drivers:
1987 107.048 Stella /// 1987 201.034 Hermann /// 1992 124.051 Gretel /// 2012 212.074 Klaus /// 1991 Range Rover Classic OM606.962/722.6 Oswald

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2018, 05:31 AM Thread Starter
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There is some serious knowledge and experience on this forum. Love it.

Contacted HWA Asteroid and he was very good and came back instantly. Ultimately I think I may go for them but I need to save up a bit of cash...

Anyway update: so I slapped on my 25mm Hubcentric H & R DRA spacers and the wheels go on. (Had to dremel 1mm of the shoulder of the caliper). Happy ish at the moment although the track is a little wide at the front for my liking. I suspect reducing to a 205 tyre at the front will help but ultimately I think I will look for a thinner caliper. Anyway as they say without pics it didn’t happen......
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2018, 06:38 AM
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There is some serious knowledge and experience on this forum. Love it.

Contacted HWA Asteroid and he was very good and came back instantly. Ultimately I think I may go for them but I need to save up a bit of cash...

Anyway update: so I slapped on my 25mm Hubcentric H & R DRA spacers and the wheels go on. (Had to dremel 1mm of the shoulder of the caliper). Happy ish at the moment although the track is a little wide at the front for my liking. I suspect reducing to a 205 tyre at the front will help but ultimately I think I will look for a thinner caliper. Anyway as they say without pics it didnít happen......
I gotta say....that does look sharp.

Quote:
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Donítí ever wrestle with a pig. Youíll both get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky raccoon View Post
Soldier on Old Chap. The Pig is you and you are the Pig.




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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-19-2018, 08:27 AM
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Since it seems you are in the UK, the Elf and Safety crowd will have a field day with your caliper dremel action!

Unfortunately you lot have allowed people with very little technical knowledge or sense become true HSE dictators (I know I lived there for many years). I also know many blame this on the European Union and expect Brexit to solve all ills, but in fact you will find that 'HSE gone mad' is UK export product and the EU is probably quite happy to have all of that at arm's length now.

Enjoy your car even though you will be sure to DIE and BURN IN HELL for having messed with your brakes your did (being sarcastic).
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