Getting ready to replace all the fluids in preparation for attempting to start the engine. Any reason why I can't use green anti-freeze? When I drained the rad it had green so should I just go with green?
????????? But isn't MB coolant long life? My 2005 C230 has 15 year change interval according to the owner's manual.Anti-freeze tech has become complicated. In general stay away from the long life products. I have always used MBZ coolant and all has been well.. I also use the MBZ recommended citric acid flush every so often.
I have no reason to doubt that you are 100% correct, but I'm still left with the puzzle of a lifetime of experience using the old standby Green antifreeze and water from the garden hose. Never once in all the cars I've owned, have I seen the cooling system fail due to corrosion. I've bought cars with blown head gaskets that the PO used a sealer on just to get rid of the car (not very ethical) which then clogged the radiator so bad it needed to be replaced but I've just not seen the damage caused by Green antifreeze that you and others have alluded to.In the meantime, the short answer is to use *only* distilled water combined 50/50 with either G-05 coolant (the previous MB spec) or G-48 (blue) coolant. I don't know enough about waterless coolants yet to comment (other than to say I'm reasonably confident that they're not at all the same as just running undiluted antifreeze) so at this point my cars get G-05 (for ease of availability) and *distilled water*.
Your water is probably reasonably soft. That, combined with regular coolant changes will indeed do a perfectly decent job of protecting the cooling system, especially in cars with little or no aluminum engine parts. Heck, I ran green stuff for many, many years before I knew any better. It used to be all we could get. The secret to success was to change it every two years. If you did that you were mostly okay, even with hard water. Sounds to me like you were performing proper maintenance.I have no reason to doubt that you are 100% correct, but I'm still left with the puzzle of a lifetime of experience using the old standby Green antifreeze and water from the garden hose.
Speak for yourself.We don't push our SL's to their design limits, instead we baby them well within their limits.
honestly, I don't drink it or rub it all over. I definitely won't put any in my fish tank.
Is that any better or worse than the other coolants under discussion . It's a long, long, long time since I did enough chemistry to be all over this.
G-05 Coolant is where its at.
There are three basic types of ethylene glycol coolant.
1. Conventional/traditional
2. OAT organic additive (acid) technology
3. HOAT (Hbrid OAT with silicates)
They are all available in every color you can imagine.
HOAT are further divided into parially formulated (requires a supplement for diesel applications) and fully formulated can be used as is in diesel applications. The fully formulated can be substituted for partially formulated. The addition of silicates provides fast acting protection that OAT coolants lack and provide a barier that protects plastics from potential deplymerization of some plastics.
Fully formulated HOAT Examples: Zerex G-05, Chevron Custom Made, Texaco/Havoline Custom Made, Motorcraft Premium Gold, Mercedes Benz, Freightliner Purple long life, Mopar Long Life Orange, Mopar Long Life Gold/Amber, Peak CF-EXL, MTU Green.
Partially Formulated Examples: VW Blue, BMW Blue, Volvo Green, Zerex/Glysantin/BASF G-48 (Saab and others have used this also. If it's Blue and European OEM, It's G-48).
OAT comes in many varieties. The Japanese have high phosphate versions and a few molybdate versions. Molybdates improve water pump protection. European and American versions are phosphate free. GM and others that are "GM Dexcool approved" and some "one size fits all" versions use a specific 2-EH acid that some OEMs believe cause problems and are dead set against. European and American versions are usually phosphate-free. All are silicate free.
Toyota uses a couple of non 2-EH versions with molybdates for extra cavitation protection.
Peak Global is a non-2-EH version.
Most European red/pink coolants are Zerex/Glysantine/BASF G-30. VW/Audi/porsche, Jaguar and others use it and have used it.
GM/AC-Delco/Shell/Chevron/Texaco/Havoline is the 2-EH Dexcool stuff and Zerex/Gysantine G-34/Extreme Life 5/150 is the European Dexcool (Newer Saab etc) with molybdates.
Conventional coolants come in passenger car (ASTM D3306) partially formulated HD (accepts supplements for HD service) and fully formulated (Ready for HD service). All include silicates for fast acting protection against abrasives and water pump cavitation. Supplements to address HD cylinder liner cavitation include the SCA/DCA-2 nitrite stuff and the DCA-4 molybdate/nitrite stuff.
Silicates can cause problems in some cars Phosphates can cause problems in some cars 2-EH acids can cause problems in some cars Borates can cause problems in some cars Silicates are required in some cars 2-EH acids are required in some cars.
I would use a g-05 over dexcool. as its simply just a better product.
Make sure you use distilled water or all bets are off.
I would like to talk about mixing coolants. In general, GM and coolant manufacturers all claim that mixing other coolants with Dexcool will not create any significant problems other than shortening the life of "long life" coolant to 24 months. However there is much evidence to the contrary. All bets are off when mixing any two coolant formulas. This is true regardless of color. Mixing Chrysler/G05 orange with orange Dexcool appears to cause plastic/nylon 66 http://home.comcast.net/~roadska/nylon66.pdf deterioration (even worse than Dexcool alone).
Mixing Japanese red coolants with European red coolants appears to have also caused problems.
Adding green coolant to Dexcool seems to also accelerate problems, but that statement begs the question: Which type of green coolant?
Today green coolant can be
1. Traditional high silicate American car coolant
2. Parially formulated HD low silicate coolant
3. Fully formulated HD low silicate coolant
4. Any of several other less common green coolants
Each of the above has a different additive formula that can react differently with Dexcool and other coolants.
Flush the cooling system extensively before changing coolants.
The carboxylates in Dexcool have been determined to cause polymerization of Nylon 66 when left in use over 24 months. Nylon 66 is used throughout the cooling system including as a backing/support in many gaskets and seals. Mixing different organic acid coolants with Dexcool seems to accelerate this nylon 66 destruction, but I don't think adding an inorganic coolant to dexcool would do the same (but who knows?).
Use a Distilledmwater unless you are sure that your water content is below:
100 ppm total hardness
50 ppm chlorides
40 ppm sulfates 250 ppm total disolved solids
If you use distilled water, buy it in 1 gallon containers and mix any unused portion with coolant as soon as reasonably possible. Distilled water absorbs CO2 from the air and forms acids.
If you want a true long life coolant, my choice is G05. G05 is the factory fill in Mercedes Benz, some chryslers, some Fords and some Volkswagons. It has been around long enough to have a good track record with many different materials and conditions. Ford and M-B even use it in HD truck applications. It is available from several sources and in several colors.
Chrysler - orange
Mercedes - clear
Ford - Gold/yellow (Motorcraft Premium gold)
Zerex - Gold/yellow
G05 seems to be good for at least 5 years/100,000 miles but the rest of your system isn't. Radiator caps, hoses, fittings, tees will all probably be outlived by the coolant.
If you choose long life, I think you should also go with a stainless steel "premium" thermostat (Stant has one), silicone premium hoses (Goodyear, Gates and Samcosport are good sources), or the new electrochemical resistant "Gates greenstripe" hoses, premium brass fitting and brass or soldered copper tees. If the freeze plugs are old, I'd replace them with brass too.
If you do all that and put in G05 you should be good for 5 years but you still better inspect it every year.
WaterWetter: I don't know what it actually is. The bottle only says "contains alkaline materials." It comes in a diesel version and a gas engine version. Redline tells me that the diesel version contains less or no additives because it is expected that all diesels will be run with coolant mixes already containing additives; the gas version has additives (probably mostly or all for corrosion) because it may be used with water only or with a coolant mix. Of course, I bet they dont know how awesome I am, of they would tell me what this stuff is. Racers use water only, because of coolant spill issues (antifreeze slippery) on the track and because water only has better heat transfer properties than an antifreeze mix. The Water Wetter provides maximum benefit of improved heat transfer with water only; but is still effective with any antifreeze mix. In the summer with no risk of freezing, I dont see a problem other then I'm concerned that it is likely to increase cavitation, but I might be overly cautous. Do an internet search on "black coolant" and you will find an OEM approved (but not GM approved) alternative formula that should also improve heat transfer. Here's one: http://www.penray.com/images/99.014.pdf