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post #161 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 01:44 PM
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@H.D. Ok, I'll do the test asap. I won't be in Paris next weekend, so the results might take a bit longer then normally. ...
No worries! … and enjoy the weekend. ...

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... In the meanwhile could you maybe explain what the relation is between the sparks plug test and Duty Cycle as you mentioned in post 135? ...
I‘m glad you ask this question. … Once I tried hard to induce a very similar question in the 124 forum about 2 years ago. But, no matter how broad a hint I gave, no one was interested there. ...

Anyway, the answer to your question offers a key to understanding an important part of the function of the KE-Jetronic … without which DIYers & mechanics can very easily be fooled (and mostly are). … It‘s a topic (among others) I‘m planing to address in my “KE-Jetronic Lambda control (duty cycle) adjustment” thread soon if & when I have a little more time. It’s too extensive to be addressed here in your thread. …

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... As well as for this upcoming test, what the use is of letting the ECU think the coolant temp is 20°C and no input from the 02 sensor? ...
More good questions. ...

The simulated coolant temp of 20°C is necessary to see if your ECU‘s & EHA‘s acceleration enrichment function works as it‘s supposed to.

The reason for the disconnected o2 sensor is the simulated coolant temp of 20°C. During the test the o2 sensor is at operating temp, which it is not when it’s cold like it is when the engine is at 20°C. Thus, connected to the ECU, it would send input to the ECU that would interfere with the AFM-POT’s input to the ECU about the acceleration process, disturbing the ECU’s 20°C-type acceleration enrichment control via EHA current.

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... Merci!
De rien ! …

H.D.
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post #162 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 03:23 AM
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Apologies for the unrelated q. @H.D. where can I get some training material on all that knowledge you have, preferable in English/Spanish? Or should we just print all your posts :-)

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post #163 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 01:32 PM
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... @H.D. where can I get some training material on all that knowledge you have ...
I don‘t know. It‘s not from the internet or from books. ... Post 57 will give you an idea what & where it's from. That post also leads you to a write-up which, IMHO, is suitable material for understanding one of the least understood functions of the KE-Jetronic - “Lambda control & its duty cycle“. With that really understood, many of the often in CIS-E car forums observable troubleshooting attempts into wrong directions can be avoided. …

BTW, the fact that this function is hardly understood by car owners … even by most of those who claim to understand it and even by most professional mechanics at the dealerships … was the reason for the security plug that was pressed into the duty cycle adjustment tower in the factory before delivery. …

I‘ll possibly amplify the above mentioned Lambda control write-up soon. … And I‘m planing to start new write-ups with a lot more other information about the CIS-E and how to diagnose / troubleshoot it, if & when I have more time. These write-ups will include detailed procedures of tests that you can not find in the FSM or in any other service manuals I‘ve seen.

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post #164 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by H.D. View Post
I don‘t know. It‘s not from the internet or from books. ... Post 57 will give you an idea what & where it's from. That post also leads you to a write-up which, IMHO, is suitable material for understanding one of the least understood functions of the KE-Jetronic - “Lambda control & its duty cycle“. With that really understood, many of the often in CIS-E car forums observable troubleshooting attempts into wrong directions can be avoided. …

BTW, the fact that this function is hardly understood by car owners … even by most of those who claim to understand it and even by most professional mechanics at the dealerships … was the reason for the security plug that was pressed into the duty cycle adjustment tower in the factory before delivery. …

I‘ll possibly amplify the above mentioned Lambda control write-up soon. … And I‘m planing to start new write-ups with a lot more other information about the CIS-E and how to diagnose / troubleshoot it, if & when I have more time. These write-ups will include detailed procedures of tests that you can not find in the FSM or in any other service manuals I‘ve seen.

H.D.
H.D., such a writeup would be a real gift. I hope you find the time to do it.
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post #165 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 01:18 AM
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My 300sl has no lambda, so one less thing I can screw up :-) We should do a collective effort to collect and index all that knowledge imho. If you need sbdy to help you please shout. Some post that troubleshoots & links to the meaningful posts like https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c...ka-egv107.html would be awesome to KE owners & diy

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post #166 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 09:02 AM
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... We should do a collective effort to collect and index all that knowledge imho. If you need sbdy to help you please shout. Some post that troubleshoots & links to the meaningful posts like https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c...ka-egv107.html would be awesome to KE owners & diy
I hardly know this 107 forum. This is one of the first threads here I've posted in. ... Most DIYers use forums for advice how to get their cars back on the road somehow asap. They‘re not really interested in knowing how they work or how to properly diagnose & properly fix them. The 124 forum is a typical example of that. There they suggest help seeking people to throw parts at problems, hoping that that makes them (the problems or the people ) go away. And if it does (make a problem go away ) they make the same suggestion later again, ignoring that with CIS-E similar symptoms can have a number of completely different causes, which can all be tested for … far beyond the tests described in the FSM or other service manuals. The 201 forum I don‘t even want to mention. The 126 forum has been better in that regard. But lately more and more advice very different from mine has been posted there, which keeps me at distance from other member‘s threads there too. … But I did post a few things in the following 124 & 126 forum threads that hold information relevant for 107‘s too and that some owners of 107‘s might find interesting:

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...cuum-leak.html

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...l#post17551181

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...l#post17562549

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...gas-ideas.html

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...l#post15650330
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post #167 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 02:21 AM
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Well I'm an engineer as well but on soft & electronics. So I have and share that obsession to understand the dark details and enjoy the awe of how smart some designs are. But I haven't found a way to learn KE yet :shrug: That's why I was asking for learning material. I might give it a go at trying to give some form to your posts. And now I shut up after having de-railed the thread :-) Apologies.

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post #168 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 05:53 AM
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Well I'm an engineer as well but on soft & electronics. So I have and share that obsession to understand the dark details and enjoy the awe of how smart some designs are. ...
First and foremost the KE-Jetronic is a remarkable & underestimated piece of mechanical engineering and, as I said before, one of the most typical representatives of the spirit ‘golden era‘ MB‘s were designed with. This mechanical design includes quite sophisticated, and among CIS-E car owners practically unknown, functional details.

What played a major role in MB‘s decision for the KE-Jetronic, was the desire to have a system that, even if its complete electronic part fails, the car does not only not fail on the road, but also that the driver hardly feels any difference during driving at normal operating temperature (besides a little higher engine speed while waiting at a red light) … which with an otherwise proper (& not messed with) system is the case.

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... But I haven't found a way to learn KE yet :shrug: That's why I was asking for learning material. I might give it a go at trying to give some form to your posts. And now I shut up after having de-railed the thread :-) Apologies.
No reason to apologize, as long as Bauk18 doesn‘t mind. … I find it refreshing to see signals of interest in this system. I don‘t say there are never any here at Benzworld, but the number of those who are interested in a little deeper understanding of the KE-Jetronic seems to be rather limited.

As I mentioned in post 163, I‘m planing to post a lot more about this injection system if & when I have more time.

H.D.
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post #169 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 11:22 AM
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First and foremost the KE-Jetronic is a remarkable & underestimated piece of mechanical engineering and, as I said before, one of the most typical representatives of the spirit ‘golden era‘ MB‘s were designed with. This mechanical design includes quite sophisticated, and among CIS-E car owners practically unknown, functional details.

What played a major role in MB‘s decision for the KE-Jetronic, was the desire to have a system that, even if its complete electronic part fails, the car does not only not fail on the road, but also that the driver hardly feels any difference during driving at normal operating temperature (besides a little higher engine speed while waiting at a red light) … which with an otherwise proper (& not messed with) system is the case.


No reason to apologize, as long as Bauk18 doesn‘t mind. … I find it refreshing to see signals of interest in this system. I don‘t say there are never any here at Benzworld, but the number of those who are interested in a little deeper understanding of the KE-Jetronic seems to be rather limited.

As I mentioned in post 163, I‘m planing to post a lot more about this injection system if & when I have more time.

H.D.
Hmmm. Interesting comment about "(besides a little higher engine speed while waiting at a red light)". I would like to learn more about this, eventually.
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post #170 of 186 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 07:44 AM
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Hmmm. Interesting comment about "(besides a little higher engine speed while waiting at a red light)". I would like to learn more about this, eventually.
Since there is no higher idle speed reported in this thread, I suggest to talk about it later. …
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