Money Money Money - Mercedes-Benz Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Jan 2008
Vehicle: zero
Location: USA
Posts: 19,471
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 3294 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Money Money Money

Follow the Money
Global cooling/warming comes to mind.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...awsuit-n987316

© All photographs and likenesses of Multipurpose are protected under copyright
law. Any use of photographs in whole or in part is strictly prohibited
unless authorization is granted in writing by copyright holder. All rights
reserved.
Multipurpose is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 07:41 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: May 2016
Vehicle: 2000 S430, 2003 S430, 2003 S600 TT, and 2005 E320 CDI
Location: USA
Posts: 3,828
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Quoted: 962 Post(s)
You know, that's one thing that rankles me--the idea of fakery in research. I remember doing some research both in high school and college, and the subject was acid rain. Didn't know hardly anything about it before, so I didn't have any prejudices. Learned a lot about sulfur dioxides and nitrous oxides in the process. What I learned made me really glad for today's modern "clean coal" technology, though, as well as going to renewable energy resources. Let the science itself tell the story; cooking the scientific books is what got us the ridiculous notion that Black people are somehow "less intelligent" than White people. Yeesh....

Good on that whistleblower for shining light on bad behaviour and helping provide an incentive to keep the research real.

2000 S430 (Dad's car, used for special occasions)
2000 S500 (wife's DD: my first W220 project car)
2003 S600 ("sex on wheels"--second w220 project car)
2003 S430 (one of two current DD's--third W220 project car)
2005 E320 CDI (the other current DD--first W211 project car)
cowboyt is offline  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 08:27 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
wilson1010's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: 560SEL 560SEC 300SEL E320 Cab. MB Metris Van / 300TD 300TE 300SDL, 300D, Unimog 406 (Gone)
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,290
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboyt View Post
Y . . . Let the science itself tell the story; cooking the scientific books is what got us the ridiculous notion that Black people are somehow "less intelligent" than White people. Yeesh....

Good on that whistleblower for shining light on bad behaviour and helping provide an incentive to keep the research real.
It is curious that you chose this example of cooking the scientific books. Of course, i agree that scientists are often guilty of cooking the bokks. But why this example. I can't think of a more pure conclusion from actual empirical evidence than the results of standardized intelligence tests.

Why this example?

What was the defect in the conclusion?
wilson1010 is offline  
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 08:34 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
hbar's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2007
Vehicle: '74 & '78 450 SEL
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,913
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Quoted: 2046 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
It is curious that you chose this example of cooking the scientific books. Of course, i agree that scientists are often guilty of cooking the bokks. But why this example. I can't think of a more pure conclusion from actual empirical evidence than the results of standardized intelligence tests.

Why this example?

What was the defect in the conclusion?
I'm going to take a guess here and say that it's an infamous example from history many decades past.


See the book "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen J. Gould.
hbar is online now  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 10:16 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
wilson1010's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: 560SEL 560SEC 300SEL E320 Cab. MB Metris Van / 300TD 300TE 300SDL, 300D, Unimog 406 (Gone)
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,290
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbar View Post
I'm going to take a guess here and say that it's an infamous example from history many decades past.


See the book "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen J. Gould.
That is sort of why I asked it. there are two issues. Are persons of color, specifically african Americans possessed of lower intelligence and secondly, why. Your citation is a criticism of the second issue, the unwarranted conclusion that such persons of color are biologically defective or inferior. That is a topic for scientists to monkey around with (if you will excuse the pun). And, is subject to endless debate and conjecture (although which debate has been ruled hate speech by the PC crowd.

But, the first issue is purely empirical in the truest sense of scientific method.
wilson1010 is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 10:31 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
GreenT's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2013
Vehicle: 1995 S500 - 1986 420SEL
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 60,724
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Quoted: 10521 Post(s)
This thread has potential.
DP likes this.
GreenT is offline  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 12:18 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 46,414
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 1390 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboyt View Post
You know, that's one thing that rankles me--the idea of fakery in research. I remember doing some research both in high school and college, and the subject was acid rain. Didn't know hardly anything about it before, so I didn't have any prejudices. Learned a lot about sulfur dioxides and nitrous oxides in the process. What I learned made me really glad for today's modern "clean coal" technology, though, as well as going to renewable energy resources. Let the science itself tell the story; cooking the scientific books is what got us the ridiculous notion that Black people are somehow "less intelligent" than White people. Yeesh....

Good on that whistleblower for shining light on bad behaviour and helping provide an incentive to keep the research real.
I have been dabbling in a specific scientific field (ethnobotany) for several years now as an amateur, and have had personal encounters with the supposed giants in the field. I'm sorry but these people are awful. The petty jealousies and rivalries rampant in the 'publish or perish' crowd are nearly beyond belief. I have not encountered data fakery (yet), but DNA analysis via Next Generation Sequencing may leave that door wide open, since all manner of unverified data are provided as background for research grants and such. The scientific community and society in general might benefit substantially from more collaboration and less competition.

"2016 will go down in history as the year America lowered its expectations beneath the threshold of a first world country"
GeeS is offline  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 12:20 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 46,414
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Quoted: 1390 Post(s)
Rambling Racist Rant (RRR)

Quoted for the sake of posterity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
It is curious that you chose this example of cooking the scientific books. Of course, i agree that scientists are often guilty of cooking the bokks. But why this example. I can't think of a more pure conclusion from actual empirical evidence than the results of standardized intelligence tests.

Why this example?

What was the defect in the conclusion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post
That is sort of why I asked it. there are two issues. Are persons of color, specifically african Americans possessed of lower intelligence and secondly, why. Your citation is a criticism of the second issue, the unwarranted conclusion that such persons of color are biologically defective or inferior. That is a topic for scientists to monkey around with (if you will excuse the pun). And, is subject to endless debate and conjecture (although which debate has been ruled hate speech by the PC crowd.

But, the first issue is purely empirical in the truest sense of scientific method.
DEVOURS, DP and The Proctologist like this.

"2016 will go down in history as the year America lowered its expectations beneath the threshold of a first world country"
GeeS is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 01:50 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
hbar's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2007
Vehicle: '74 & '78 450 SEL
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,913
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Quoted: 2046 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson1010 View Post

. . . the first issue [Are persons of color, specifically african Americans, possessed of lower intelligence ?] is purely empirical in the truest sense of scientific method.
Purely imperical? Yes and no.

Sure, the question is testable by carefully designing scientific experiments and surveys, recording the data, and then examining the results. But there is a crucial principle within the scientific process that mandates you control or account for every significant variable.

In the "hard" sciences, like physics, this tends to be much easier because there are usually far fewer variables involved and the basic principles are often defined by established laws that are precisely quantified (like the law of gravity or Ohms law)

Studying human behavior and attempting to form justifiable conclusions about how or why people act the way they do is vastly more complex and includes so many variables that it becomes virtually impossible to design experiments that adequately control or account for them all.

In this particular example, if you're studying human intelligence and want to find out if there are inherent (genetic) differences between two different races, then the difficulties quickly become apparent.

1) "Race" is a social construct, not a biological one. There is currently only one human species on Earth so it can't be defined that way. Traditionally, when these studies were first done, skin color was the determining factor, with dark brown skin making one "Negroid", yellow skin making one "Mongoloid", and light tan skin making one "Caucasoid".

That classification system has long been discredited as grossly oversimplistic and arbitrary. Subsequent attempts to define "race" in a valid, quantifiable manner have all met with failure because the migration of humans across the planet over the last few thousand years, and especially the last few hundred, has mixed our genetic lines into an indecipherable conglomeration of various traits.

2) Nature versus nurture. Probably the most difficult task in studying human behavior is determining the relative cause and effect of genetics versus environment. Many volumes have been written on this topic and I couldn't possibly do the subject justice here, but just understand that virtually every experiment on complex human behavior will always be severely compromised by the near impossibility of adequately controlling all the variables involved enough to provide untainted data to study.

3) Intelligence. Early efforts at defining intelligence were so narrowly focused on what the experimentors considered to be most important that they were little more than self serving tools to declare their own ethnic group the smartest people around. It is now widely accepted that one (or a few) simple metrics is entirely inadequate to describe all the factors that make up human intelligence.

Furthermore, intelligence is not the hard wired genetic constant as previously thought. Nutrition abd diet (especially during childhood) plays a large role in the ability to learn and think creatively. In places where nutrient rich food is abundant and readily available, brains can achieve their full potential for intelligence. Live where nutrition is poor and hunger is common and the body steals resources from the brain for survival and that leaves intelligence as a low priority.

Last edited by hbar; 03-26-2019 at 02:41 PM.
hbar is online now  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 02:08 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
GreenT's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2013
Vehicle: 1995 S500 - 1986 420SEL
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 60,724
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Quoted: 10521 Post(s)
It can't be denied that caucasian is the smartest race. I don't care what books say... I have a gut feeling on this.
GreenT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
Campaign money isnít speech GeeS Off-Topic 1 04-30-2014 06:56 PM
End of Cheap Money Can the World Handle Higher Interest Rates? Teutone Off-Topic 0 06-13-2013 05:18 PM
Fisker, out of government money, begins layoffs N_Jay Off-Topic 47 04-09-2013 04:36 PM
Easy Money; "Got Change For A Million Silver Dollars?" Teutone Off-Topic 1 12-30-2009 03:15 PM
You guys got a forest of trees growing money or a gaggle of gesse laying golden eggs? Jakarta Expat Off-Topic 9 11-24-2008 04:48 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 

Title goes here

close
video goes here
description goes here. Read Full Story
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome