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post #91 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by GeeS View Post
First off, bad news -- they aren't my peeps. I am a small "l' libertarian, and have undoubtedly voted R more than D in my lifetime. The fact that 2-3% of voter suppression anecdotes may fall on the left side of the aisle does not negate or equate to the 97-98% on the right. Look at the bill recently passed by the left in Congress. McConnell characterized common sense measures to promote voter turnout, reduce third party campaign finance and encourage a democratic process as a DNC power play. Look at gerrymandering -- yes, both sides do it, but one side does it a lot more than the other. GOP supports EC because it promotes voter suppression. GOP supports voter IDs because it promotes voter suppression. GOP supports gerrymandering because it promotes voter suppression. Look at the last GA gubernatorial race. GOP stench all over it.

Yes, DNC lifetime pols are just as power-hungry, but don't generally dip into the same well of fascism because progressives represent a substantial majority in this country. Dems try to figure out how to get stoner, can't-be-bothered young people to vote, while the GOP figures out how to cheat. If you can't tell the difference, you have lost your perspective. You love to ride the equivalence train, and there was certainly a time, but those days are long gone. So yes, until the current mentally degenerate narcissist vacates the WH, I'll play democrat, because I care more about this country and the future of my daughter than I do about tribalism, which I don't really partake in at all. Once this sorry episode is over, I'll return to my former misanthropic self, and shun all political alliance, as I am wont to do.
More like CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, and a whole host of newspapers full of Democrat-aligned reporters simply don't like to report on it, except for very occasionally to try to claim, "see, we're unbiased!" That, too, is part of the election problem outlined in this thread; far too many media folks are very partisan, generally Democrat/leftist. I saw this in college among the communications/journalism majors, and I continued to see it with the journalists I met (my Dad was in the entertainment business, so I got to meet quite a few over the years). This shows up in not just how they report, but what they report on. Likely the only reason CNN bosses even allowed that article I found is that it involves Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the leftism that she and others like her represent, which the CNN reporters like and want to see more of. That's bias, big time. That's why Fox and Breitbart became so popular among the right-wingers, because the others are so obviously Democrat Party publicists. California is increasingly becoming the "People's Republic of California", unfortunately. It's almost like in order to sneeze, you need to have a permit or face fines or arrest! That's pretty close to what it felt like when I was visiting the folks last year, and that is increasingly moving toward fascist government behaviour. Where's the reporting on that, given that California is over 11% of the entire population of the United States? Tribalism.

You say the Dems aren't your peeps. I'm afraid that's to your credit; once upon a time, I was a Democrat, but as others have said, the Democratic Party left me. I remain a liberal, though today's Democratic Party disgusts me. The libertarians (little "el") are an attempt to get back to true liberalism, Founding-Father-style liberalism, without the slavery support, and that's overall a good thing. They've got some good ideas and we liberals should work with folks like you libertarians. We're often surprisingly like-minded. Unfortunately, tribalism rears its ugly head there as well ("you're not my exact political tribe? BEGONE!"), and it's silly of us--I'm speaking of the general "us" here, not just you and me--to not join forces. Our politicians really have divided and conquered us, haven't they? That, I believe, was the point of their machinations. Since you do care about the future of your daughter, then seek out, and vote for, politicians that are Constitutionalists, regardless of Party; that's a bedrock principle of your libertarianism. If that means you don't vote for the likes of Hitlery--or The Donald--then so much the better.

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look it up.
Translation: you got nothin'.
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post #92 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cowboyt View Post
More like CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, and a whole host of newspapers full of Democrat-aligned reporters simply don't like to report on it, except for very occasionally to try to claim, "see, we're unbiased!"


likes of Hitlery--


You're first comment shows you're a liar.


You're second comment confirms that you're spewing nothing more than right-wing talking points.



( Post shortened by Jakter to cut through the drivel)
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post #93 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cowboyt View Post
More like CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, and a whole host of newspapers full of Democrat-aligned reporters simply don't like to report on it, except for very occasionally to try to claim, "see, we're unbiased!" That, too, is part of the election problem outlined in this thread; far too many media folks are very partisan, generally Democrat/leftist. I saw this in college among the communications/journalism majors, and I continued to see it with the journalists I met (my Dad was in the entertainment business, so I got to meet quite a few over the years). This shows up in not just how they report, but what they report on. Likely the only reason CNN bosses even allowed that article I found is that it involves Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the leftism that she and others like her represent, which the CNN reporters like and want to see more of. That's bias, big time. That's why Fox and Breitbart became so popular among the right-wingers, because the others are so obviously Democrat Party publicists. California is increasingly becoming the "People's Republic of California", unfortunately. It's almost like in order to sneeze, you need to have a permit or face fines or arrest! That's pretty close to what it felt like when I was visiting the folks last year, and that is increasingly moving toward fascist government behaviour. Where's the reporting on that, given that California is over 11% of the entire population of the United States? Tribalism.

You say the Dems aren't your peeps. I'm afraid that's to your credit; once upon a time, I was a Democrat, but as others have said, the Democratic Party left me. I remain a liberal, though today's Democratic Party disgusts me. The libertarians (little "el") are an attempt to get back to true liberalism, Founding-Father-style liberalism, without the slavery support, and that's overall a good thing. They've got some good ideas and we liberals should work with folks like you libertarians. We're often surprisingly like-minded. Unfortunately, tribalism rears its ugly head there as well ("you're not my exact political tribe? BEGONE!"), and it's silly of us--I'm speaking of the general "us" here, not just you and me--to not join forces. Our politicians really have divided and conquered us, haven't they? That, I believe, was the point of their machinations. Since you do care about the future of your daughter, then seek out, and vote for, politicians that are Constitutionalists, regardless of Party; that's a bedrock principle of your libertarianism. If that means you don't vote for the likes of Hitlery--or The Donald--then so much the better.
Libertarians are most definitely lefties at heart, and though many claim to be righties, they are frauds, plain and simple. The main distinction as I see it is that liberals tend to favor more legislation and oversight to stop the modern day carnage of unrestrained capitalism, while libertarians believe that modern day carnage is not a result of unrestrained capitalism, but rather campaign finance woes causing bought and paid for pols to stack the deck heavily toward corporate welfare. There is likely some pretty solid truth behind both perspectives. In the end, both often agree in regard to identifying the real problems in this country, though we may offer different solutions. Those similarities are what made it so easy for Ron Paul fans to lend support to Bernie Sanders a couple years back. Let's first agree to what needs fixing before we argue about ways to best go about it.
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"2016 will go down in history as the year America lowered its expectations beneath the threshold of a first world country"
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post #94 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Libertarians just got a huge influx of people who are actually Republican but are embarrassed to say so, that's my observation, although to be fair, they are Conservative but embarrassed of the republican Party, and we have those who are Libertarian because they want marijuana legalized. I agree there is overlap.

My dream team woulda been Ron Paul as Sec State and Bernie as Pres for domestic policy.

Ron Paul has the right idea about world politics but his ideas about domestic issues are appalling, no schools, no roads, no medical care, no education etc. whereas I believe Bernies ideas about campaign finance reform and oversight to big business, and our taxes (that we already pay) should go to schools, health care, infrastructure etc.
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post #95 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 06:16 PM
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Steve Bannon is worried about a Beto -Kamala ticket.

Heh.
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post #96 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 06:29 PM
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An influx of folks who call themselves libertarians, as you say. If they don't support LGBTQ, legal recreational drugs, legal prostitution, and the repeal of pretty much all victimless crime they are just republicans pretending to rise above the fray. I do allow some latitude where abortion rights are concerned, but I'll leave that stone unturned for the time being. Suffice to say I am absolutely pro-choice. My big divergence from libertarian philosophy (most have one or more major points of disagreement, hence the small "l' bit) is healthcare. I believe healthcare should be treated as a right rather than a commodity, and see no way to achieve that without handing it over to the government. In this case, gov't control may be less than ideal, but should represent a vast improvement over our parasitic health insurance industry.

"2016 will go down in history as the year America lowered its expectations beneath the threshold of a first world country"
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post #97 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenT View Post
Steve Bannon is worried about a Beto -Kamala ticket.

Heh.
A ticket with 2 non American names headlining, that dog won't hunt for old Steve.
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post #98 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 08:45 AM
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Luckily O'Rourke and Harris are their last names respectively.
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post #99 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 08:55 AM
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A ticket with 2 non American names headlining, that dog won't hunt for old Steve.
So that's what's been happening to Rush Limpballs's hair....



Does beg the question, though: what is an "American name"? (yeah, we know, White European, preferably British--just throwin' that out there)

@TheProctologist , @GeeS , @Teutone : the last few posts have pretty much demonstrated the point. We really do have a lot in common, and we really should be working more closely to fix the political situation in America. I was one of those Ron Paul supporters (among the Republican candidates) who also later supported Bernie Sanders. The same is true of Bob Sarvis here in Virginia during his Gubernatorial run. Gary Johnson and Bob Sarvis are both former Republicans who got sent out to pasture for not towing the Bible-thumping line, so they figured they'd have better success as Libertarians. Ron Paul got a surprising number of young independents for him, due to his policies of basically, "live, and let live". Look what happened to all three; they all basically got run out of the GOP. Hence, the notion that the Libertarians (capital "L") are just Republicans under a different name. But it's not necessarily the case that they're social conservatives, e. g. Gary Johnson. The philosophy, at least for little "l" libertarians and even plenty of Capital-L Libertarians, does appear to be basically, "live, and let live," or as the Wiccans say, "an' ye harm none, do as ye will." We really should work together more than we do.

Among the Democrats, look at Ralph Nader and how the Democrats treated him. Same goes for former Sen. Carol Moseley Braun; they basically ran her out, too, in favour of the Maria Cantwells and Patty Murrays of the world. And of course, look what they did to The Bern. The Dems, too, seem to accept only their Party dogma. Ick.

And that's why we, as voters, need to do something about it. First thing is for us to stop the "divide & conquer" nonsense that we keep letting our politicians and news media inflict upon us. I like the way GeeS put it:

"Let's first agree to what needs fixing before we argue about ways to best go about it."
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post #100 of 111 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 09:12 AM
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I was one of those Ron Paul supporters (among the Republican candidates) who also later supported Bernie Sanders

You sure?

My Bernie thread has over 500 posts while you planted 5 temperate post. If you were a supporter you were a very muted one...

I say this because it seems to be fashionable nowadays to claim support for Bernie back then. Almost like he should won by a landslide if true.
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