Tesla - Page 46 - Mercedes-Benz Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #451 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 03:18 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
IWantedaJag's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2014
Vehicle: 2008 AMG CLK63 Conv., 2012 R350 4-Matic, Wife's 2015 C300 sedan
Location: Cypress Texas
Posts: 8,472
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Quoted: 2518 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantedaJag View Post
Agreed but the point is Tesla's run on 60+ percent fossil fuel generated electricity, use metals, plastics and rubber like every other vehicle.

Another point: since Teslas don't use gasoline the users don't pay gasoline tax into the interstate fund (like it's really used for interstates but...) like us dinosaurs in our dino juice guzzling ICE propelled vehicles.

Oh. A Tesla3 weighs 3672 lbs and up. A Honda Accord 3131 lbs and up, so the Tesla3 arguably causes slightly more wear than the Accord.
Turns out, gasoline is also a fossil fuel...

Natural gas plants are really clean, the really big ones are cogen plants and are very efficient. Even the large coal plants that are surviving the retirement wave have been fitted with scrubbers and SCR's, so they're pretty clean, too.

Can't help you with the road tax, will let you win that, but that isn't a design or operational feature of either vehicle.
My point is the average Tesla driving says "my car is SO green! It runs on electricity which is SO not as polluting as gasoline!". Well, standing right there next to the car that may be true. But here in Houston, for example, the electricity is just as, possibly MORE likely to have been generated by the bloody great COAL fired power plant near Sugar Land than it is to have come from a wind turbine or solar panel.

Natural gas is not "clean". It is clean-ER. And all those coal fired power station scrubbers use huge amounts of chemicals that have to be gotten somewhere somehow.

"Semper In excretio, solum profundum variat" - unknown
They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me" - Nathaniel Lee
IWantedaJag is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #452 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 03:54 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
GreenT's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2013
Vehicle: 1995 S500 - 1986 420SEL
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 60,705
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Quoted: 10519 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
So you blame Tesla for something they have no control of... they've done their part, you do yours.

Go solar, wind, geo, hydro and stop bitching.
GreenT is online now  
post #453 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
GreenT's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2013
Vehicle: 1995 S500 - 1986 420SEL
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 60,705
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Quoted: 10519 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantedaJag View Post
But here in Houston, for example, the electricity is just as, possibly MORE likely to have been generated by the bloody great COAL fired power plant near Sugar Land than it is to have come from a wind turbine or solar panel.

I went to Wiki...


Quote:
Texas has a wide variety of energy sources. Once dominated by natural gas and coal, the power mix has been changing rapidly. Wind generation replaced coal in the number two position in 2017. ERCOT has also approved the planned connection of much new generation capacity to the Texas electric grid, none of it coal. The permitted new connections to the grid include 2,000 megawatts from solar sources, 8,700 megawatts from wind generation, and more than 10,000 megawatts from natural gas.

Now what?
GreenT is online now  
post #454 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 04:50 AM
Moderately subtle
 
edfreeman's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2003
Vehicle: 94 E500, 97 500SL
Location: Soddy Daisy, TN
Posts: 11,881
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Send a message via AIM to edfreeman
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantedaJag View Post
My point is the average Tesla driving says "my car is SO green! It runs on electricity which is SO not as polluting as gasoline!". Well, standing right there next to the car that may be true. But here in Houston, for example, the electricity is just as, possibly MORE likely to have been generated by the bloody great COAL fired power plant near Sugar Land than it is to have come from a wind turbine or solar panel.

Natural gas is not "clean". It is clean-ER. And all those coal fired power station scrubbers use huge amounts of chemicals that have to be gotten somewhere somehow.


Scrubbers use pulverized limestone, spray it into the flume and that makes gypsum (aka - that stuff that’s in the middle of drywall).

And I dare say if you sum up all the emissions these days, total process, to run that Tesla compared to that Landrover, I’d bet on the Tesla to be lower. Electricity is cheaper than gasoline, too, so if they can get the production costs/vehicle prices down to where the total cost of ownership is competitive, it will continue to sell.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
edfreeman is offline  
post #455 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 06:45 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
IWantedaJag's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jan 2014
Vehicle: 2008 AMG CLK63 Conv., 2012 R350 4-Matic, Wife's 2015 C300 sedan
Location: Cypress Texas
Posts: 8,472
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Quoted: 2518 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
Scrubbers use pulverized limestone, spray it into the flume and that makes gypsum (aka - that stuff that’s in the middle of drywall).

And I dare say if you sum up all the emissions these days, total process, to run that Tesla compared to that Landrover, I’d bet on the Tesla to be lower. Electricity is cheaper than gasoline, too, so if they can get the production costs/vehicle prices down to where the total cost of ownership is competitive, it will continue to sell.
Yup, let's dig up county-wide limestone pits and open cast coal mines to keep those Teslas running... MUST be better for the planet, that...

You shouldn't compare a Tesla to our Land Rover (which we only use as a spare / bug-out vehicle during hurricanes and floods these days anyway). A more appropriate comparison would be the one I keep using - Honda Accord.

Right now, I expect the total cost of running a Tesla Model3 vs said Honda Accord over, say, 10 years or 150,000 miles (the most likely lifetime of both), assuming both are scrapped at zero residual value at the end of that period, are actually pretty much even, if not actually in favor of the Accord. Not least because the Tesla3 starts at $35K, the Accord base model at a shade under $25K. A quick finance calculation says the Tesla3 total cost (all financed 5% interest, 5 year term) is just under $40K, the Honda (on the same basis) just over $28K, i.e. $12K or about 12-1/2 cents a mile over 150K miles. In other words, the finance cost alone pays for the Accord's gasoline.

And I would like to see a total environmental impact assessment from an unbiased source too. On that takes in the total environmental impact of extracting the raw minerals, transporting them, processing them, turning them into a usable car, driving said car for 150,000 miles, then scrapping the car at the end. How you measure that environmental impact, I'm not sure. Maybe in raw Dollars or maybe in tonnes of CO2 equivalent, I'm not sure.

"Semper In excretio, solum profundum variat" - unknown
They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me" - Nathaniel Lee
IWantedaJag is online now  
post #456 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 06:54 AM
Moderately subtle
 
edfreeman's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2003
Vehicle: 94 E500, 97 500SL
Location: Soddy Daisy, TN
Posts: 11,881
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Send a message via AIM to edfreeman
Yeah, well, good luck with finding an unbiased source. Unlikely to happen, and, sorry, but I have to lay that at the feet of the oil producers and car manufacturers who are funding studies that support maintaining their market share.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
edfreeman is offline  
post #457 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
GreenT's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2013
Vehicle: 1995 S500 - 1986 420SEL
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 60,705
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Quoted: 10519 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
And here we go... Morgan Stanley “analyst” Adam Jones who told clients that Tesla was a “restructuring story” days ago now reverses course....



Tesla’s outpacing its electric car competitors, with May demand for Model 3 surprising Wall Street



Quote:
The month of May saw Tesla continue “to extend its lead vs. a still-small group of true [electric vehicle] competitors,” Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas wrote in a note to investors on Wednesday. Jonas is widely followed on Wall Street for his thoughts on both the auto industry and electric vehicles, especially Tesla.

Jonas’ note comes after he warned investors that Tesla shareholders should not expect a big tech company to bail out Elon Musk’s automaker, even with the stock down more than 40% this year. Jonas said on a call with investors that “Tesla is not really seen as a growth story” and currently seems more “like a distressed credit and restructuring story.”

Nonetheless, Tesla increased total U.S. sales in the month of May by 73% compared to last year, according to data from Motor Intelligence. Meanwhile, sales climbed 39% for competing electric vehicles from Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Chevrolet and Nissan. Morgan Stanley also noted that Tesla’s estimated total U.S. sales of 11,300 vehicles in May was 2.6 times the combined total of its competitors’ EV offerings -- up from 2.1 times last year.


Sell, sell, sell!!!... buy, buy, buy!!!


.
GreenT is online now  
post #458 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
GreenT's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2013
Vehicle: 1995 S500 - 1986 420SEL
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 60,705
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Quoted: 10519 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
Yeah, well, good luck with finding an unbiased source. Unlikely to happen, and, sorry, but I have to lay that at the feet of the oil producers and car manufacturers who are funding studies that support maintaining their market share.


You have the oil industry scared shitless, car manufacturers that see they can't keep up, and an antagonistic media because Tesla doesn't spend a penny in advertising... all lined up against one man they hate.
GreenT is online now  
post #459 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
GreenT's Avatar
 
Date registered: Mar 2013
Vehicle: 1995 S500 - 1986 420SEL
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 60,705
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Quoted: 10519 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
May 2019 car sales USA (excluding trucks): How Model 3 stacks up against the most popular sedans in USA



GreenT is online now  
post #460 of 606 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:33 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Shane's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: U took the old religion from the woman on the hill.
Location: TX, NM, MT
Posts: 43,577
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Quoted: 2547 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Now wheels simply fall off Tesla's.

https://www.businessinsider.com/alad...-wheels-2019-6
Shane is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 

Title goes here

close
video goes here
description goes here. Read Full Story
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome