Originally Posted by The Proctologist
You don't hit him as hard as others have but you have absolutely invalidated his experience a few times when he has tried to explain he understands somewhat what it's like to be discriminated against. Just kinda pointing it out, it may have been unconscious, but it always bums me out when I see allies experience invalidated, I get to hear that BS how I will never understand what it's like to be discriminated against or to be the subject of racism when I have been on the wrong side of that shit my entire life, it wasn't until I cut my hair and donned a white collar disguise did the SFPD stop beating me over the head with sticks and I stopped being put in jail every weekend (I've been to jail about 100 times when young, like literally 100 times).
A longhair from SF in Texas, a Texan in SF, the only white kid in multiple schools, a Haole in Maui, it wasn't until I was in a FD in my late 20's did I end up on the "right side" of the "good ole boy" network.
TL;DR Many of us DO understand what it's like to be on the receiving end of bigotry and racism, and no, we will never understand it to the extent that you do, but we understand it enough to be on your side, on decencies side, please take a minute and think before responding to us when we reach out with something other then being condescending, that's not aimed at you in particular, but to everyone who thinks white men are incapable of receiving or understanding racism. I have actually seen racism against "white men" celebrated on this forum in Hawaii, how is that ANY different than white men celebrating racism in Tennessee? Racism is Racism and it's fucking bullshit no matter WHO is doing it. period.
I remember being absolutely fucking appalled when my good friend Eric, his wife and kids and friends were heckled in Stinson for being black, I was soooo fucking embarrassed, and being equally embarrassed for my white friends when they were subject to racism for being in the "wrong" neighborhood. That shit needs to stop, period, full stop.
Some of us are truly on your side, hell my great great grandfather lost 5 brothers in the civil war, the only one that survived was Chauncy's father, my great grandfather (He fought in the Spanish Civil War against Franco) anyhow...
I don't see how I invalidated his experience here. I simply pointed out mine just as he pointed out his. I actually referenced his experience, if you re-read what I said. It is most certainly true that he would've been treated almost like a celebrity (hbar and I happen to be about the same age) in Seattle. The cops would've mistaken him for a rock star. Most people did with a guy who looks like either him or you did back then. That's really what I saw. Hence my surprise at his description of his treatment by police; as I said, maybe that's how Chicago was. Very different from Seattle, or San Francisco for that matter.
There most certainly are White people on "our" side, i. e. the side of those who believe in truly fair justice, and some of them are even blonde. :-) One example of a White person who is on the side of fair justice is former Pres. Jimmy Carter. I wish more people would look up to him and follow his example.
Another one is Tony Bennett, whom the wife and I will have the honour of going to see soon in performance. Frank Sinatra's another one, as is Tony Curtis.
There are unquestionably those who have attempted to actually invalidate what hbar has shared here, and that is wrong. It is likewise wrong, I think, to either overtly or through implication claim that he somehow supports racism or is a racist. That's just stupid.
One danger is to come off as, "hey, I've been discriminated against, too, and I'm White!" The implication here is, "you 'brownies' are playing the RAAAACE CAAAARRRD! You shouldn't be so overly sensitive! Don't make a race thing out of everything!" This happens far, far too often, as I think we all here know. I've mentioned my mentor's successor, who experiences exactly this from her White female associates (she is Black) whenever she brings up "shopping while Black" incidents. It really does get tiresome, hence Doni's understandable frustration (and mine, for that matter) when we read about incidents like how this Cukor fellow acted. It looks just too familiar, too much like "Pool Patrol Paulas" or "Barbecue Beckys". GreenT's assertion is not absolute as he claims it to be. However, it is, unfortunately, likely, given what we see about "Existing While Black" calls to the police.
Originally Posted by The Proctologist
^^^ Thanks, I rest my case
So racism is only bad when the other side does it?
Nope, it's bad all around, no matter who does it. I have called many a Black person on racist behaviour, be it anti-White, anti-EastAsian, anti-Latino, or otherwise. There's a scene in the movie, "Jungle Fever" that I'm always reminded of. Dad and I saw the movie when I was in my early 20's. It's when Flipper's wife Drew, played by Lonette McKee, was in their "War Council", and one of the women said she didn't care what color the man was; she simply wanted a good man. Drew said, "naw, I *ain't* the rainbow-fuckin' kind!" And every other Black woman laughed along with her in agreement. I thought, "waitasec...isn't that kind of race prejudice exactly what we're supposed to be fighting *against*?" I asked him that very question, and he heartily agreed.
Other situations happened in college, too. The most common excuse for hateful speech? "It's not racism! It's a *response* to racism against *us*!" No, that does not excuse stuff like, "fuck all White-ass honkies!", or "fuckin' kill the next White person we see!" "Yeah, right on, brotha/sista!" I tried to be a moderating voice, to significant disapproval. It was for that reason that I ultimately resigned from the National Society of Black Engineers (NSBE) and never went back, and I did so with a bit of a heavy heart. But I cannot abide by that kind of hypocrisy when you say you're for civil rights, but you call for the death or injury of an entire class of people, and get pissed off when someone points out how wrong that is. Jimmy Carter's not just White, he's a White Southerner; what, do they want to kill him, too? Yet today I see so many of these same Black people wearing Washington Redskins paraphernalia and cheering for a team whose name is a form of the word, "nigger". WTF?
Same for when I would see racism from, for example, the Korean population in various places that I've lived. I've seen it when I would go into Korean grocery stores or Korean restaurants. So be it; they obviously don't need my money. Seems that if you're not East Asian, i. e. you don't look like they do, then you're not really human (though White is apparently somewhat acceptable). This was explained to me by my college friend (happens to be American of Korean descent, and is a proud American citizen) as some crazy belief in so-called "racial purity" that he mentioned is part of the culture (he is also fully bilingual). That may be acceptable in Korea, or Japan, but not here. My friend himself doesn't subscribe to that nonsense...but his mother definitely does (I met her). Yes, I did speak up, respectfully (she is an elder, after all), but firmly nonetheless. Eventually she got it, but it took some effort. Seriously, I thought I might as well be speaking to an antebellum "missy", just the Korean version; it was surreal.
You're right. Racism is bad no matter who does it. And we should oppose it wherever and whenever it happens, not just when it happens to, say, "our" group...whichever "our" group happens to be.