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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-26-2005 09:03 PM
chiphomme
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:
elau - 11/26/2005 11:28 PM

Quote:
Please tell why it was wrong to remove a regime that was responsible for: over a million deaths, genocide, numerous UN chapter 7 violations, an attempted assassination of a US President, two wars, lobbing missiles at Israel, and giving refuge and money to terrorists?
Re-read what I wrote before you ask this question.

Quote:
For Christ sake the US and the UK had to engage in a small scale war with two no fly zones and almost daily bombing for over a decade to keep the Baathists from slaughtering the Kurds and Shiites. And economic sanctions were only hurting the innocent civilians of Iraq. Half measures were a disaster and Iraq was bribing its way clear of any oversight. After 911 it was time to end the failed strategies of the 90’s and deal with Saddam once and for all.
Again, re-read what I wrote before you go any further.



What are you talking about? That wasn't even your post I was replyint to.
11-26-2005 08:40 PM
Botnst
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:
elau - 11/26/2005 11:38 PM

Bot,
Freedom, by your definition, may not be the same as the rest of the society sees it. For example, we are free to bear arms (at least in the States that allowed you to), and I invite you to walk into the Supreme Court tomorrow with a hand gun in your hands. Not concealed. And see how freedom rings true to you. You may say it's the law, OK, I give you that. But is it not the same law that restricts your freedom? So by definition, just exactly how free are you?

You are only as free as YOUR Government sees fit. No more, no less.
Perhaps you confuse freedom with liberty.

Bot



11-26-2005 08:38 PM
elau
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Bot,
Freedom, by your definition, may not be the same as the rest of the society sees it. For example, we are free to bear arms (at least in the States that allowed you to), and I invite you to walk into the Supreme Court tomorrow with a hand gun in your hands. Not concealed. And see how freedom rings true to you. You may say it's the law, OK, I give you that. But is it not the same law that restricts your freedom? So by definition, just exactly how free are you?

You are only as free as YOUR Government sees fit. No more, no less.
11-26-2005 08:28 PM
elau
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:
Please tell why it was wrong to remove a regime that was responsible for: over a million deaths, genocide, numerous UN chapter 7 violations, an attempted assassination of a US President, two wars, lobbing missiles at Israel, and giving refuge and money to terrorists?
Re-read what I wrote before you ask this question.

Quote:
For Christ sake the US and the UK had to engage in a small scale war with two no fly zones and almost daily bombing for over a decade to keep the Baathists from slaughtering the Kurds and Shiites. And economic sanctions were only hurting the innocent civilians of Iraq. Half measures were a disaster and Iraq was bribing its way clear of any oversight. After 911 it was time to end the failed strategies of the 90’s and deal with Saddam once and for all.
Again, re-read what I wrote before you go any further.
11-26-2005 08:17 PM
Botnst
Loyal opposition in Iraq finds platform: BBC

Iraq abuse 'as bad as Saddam era'

Former Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi has said that human rights abuses in Iraq today are as bad as those during the rule of Saddam Hussein.

In an interview with the UK's Observer newspaper, Mr Allawi said that Iraqis were being tortured and killed by secret police in secret bunkers.

He said militias operated with impunity inside the interior ministry and had infiltrated the police.

He urged action to stop "a disease" spreading throughout the government.

The BBC's Chris Xia says Mr Allawi's comments appear to be aimed at setting the agenda for the forthcoming parliamentary elections.

'Contagious'

"People are doing the same as (in) Saddam Hussein's time and worse," Mr Allawi told the newspaper.











Iraq is the centrepiece of this region. If things go wrong, neither Europe nor the United States will be safe












Iyad Allawi









"It is an appropriate comparison. People are remembering the days of Saddam.

"These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam Hussein, and now we are seeing the same things."

His remarks came two weeks after US troops discovered 170 apparently abused captives in a secret prison inside an interior ministry building in Baghdad.

He said that if urgent action was not taken "the disease infecting [the interior ministry] will become contagious and spread to all ministries and structures of Iraq's government".

He also warned of the danger of Iraq disintegrating in chaos.

"Iraq is the centrepiece of this region," he said. "If things go wrong, neither Europe nor the United States will be safe."

Mr Allawi was Iraq's first interim prime minister, but he failed to win January's election which brought the current Prime Minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, to power.

He has since formed a coalition to contest next month's parliamentary elections.





11-26-2005 07:28 PM
chiphomme
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:

Because the cure is worse than the disease?


no
11-26-2005 07:27 PM
chiphomme
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:
Botnst - 11/26/2005 10:14 PM

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/26/2005 10:10 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/26/2005 8:52 PM

Quote:
jjl - 11/26/2005 8:18 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 11/27/2005 1:08 AM

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/26/2005 4:03 PM

Are you just that morally vacuous that you have no sense of right or wrong, good or evil?
Or are you just an isolationist? Or just a political opportunist?
Of course I have a sense of 'right or wrong, good or evil'. I just lack the arrogance required to impose those subjective values on other societies. Who are you to impose your values on the rest of the world -- the moral police? I hate to break this to you, but fundamentalist Muslim morality differs markedly from your own, and their truth is just as valid to them as yours is to you.
So any belief system is of equal validity as any other? As someone once said 'liberalism for liberals, canibalism for canibals'. Also, fundamentalist muslims are bound by scripture to impose their 'truth' on you, me and everyone else. Kiss everything you value in life goodbye; music, art, literature, science, freedom of expression. To hell with that as a morally equivalent truth.
And what you are preaching is two wrongs, or countless wrongs, make right. Just because the other inhabitants of this planet don't agree with our form of government, or our means of conducting commerce, doesn't give us the authority to forcefully change them. And, Bot, we are forcing freedom on the Iraqis, aren't we? If we are not, what are we using guns for over there?

We can defend ourselves and our way of life without making the rest of the world subscribe to our ways. We would do better to focus on bringing their aggression against us to the attention of the rest of the world, and their heads of state, rather than escalating the aggression so as to alienate the rest of the world. Jim


Please tell why it was wrong to remove a regime that was responsible for: over a million deaths, genocide, numerous UN chapter 7 violations, an attempted assassination of a US President, two wars, lobbing missiles at Israel, and giving refuge and money to terrorists?
For Christ sake the US and the UK had to engage in a small scale war with two no fly zones and almost daily bombing for over a decade to keep the Baathists from slaughtering the Kurds and Shiites. And economic sanctions were only hurting the innocent civilians of Iraq. Half measures were a disaster and Iraq was bribing its way clear of any oversight. After 911 it was time to end the failed strategies of the 90’s and deal with Saddam once and for all.



Bush lied and Cheney is the anti-Christ. Nothing more to know.

Hope that helps.

Bot



Of course. How silly of me.


11-26-2005 07:15 PM
jjl
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/27/2005 3:10 AM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/26/2005 8:52 PM

Quote:
jjl - 11/26/2005 8:18 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 11/27/2005 1:08 AM

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/26/2005 4:03 PM

Are you just that morally vacuous that you have no sense of right or wrong, good or evil?
Or are you just an isolationist? Or just a political opportunist?
Of course I have a sense of 'right or wrong, good or evil'. I just lack the arrogance required to impose those subjective values on other societies. Who are you to impose your values on the rest of the world -- the moral police? I hate to break this to you, but fundamentalist Muslim morality differs markedly from your own, and their truth is just as valid to them as yours is to you.
So any belief system is of equal validity as any other? As someone once said 'liberalism for liberals, canibalism for canibals'. Also, fundamentalist muslims are bound by scripture to impose their 'truth' on you, me and everyone else. Kiss everything you value in life goodbye; music, art, literature, science, freedom of expression. To hell with that as a morally equivalent truth.
And what you are preaching is two wrongs, or countless wrongs, make right. Just because the other inhabitants of this planet don't agree with our form of government, or our means of conducting commerce, doesn't give us the authority to forcefully change them. And, Bot, we are forcing freedom on the Iraqis, aren't we? If we are not, what are we using guns for over there?

We can defend ourselves and our way of life without making the rest of the world subscribe to our ways. We would do better to focus on bringing their aggression against us to the attention of the rest of the world, and their heads of state, rather than escalating the aggression so as to alienate the rest of the world. Jim


Please tell why it was wrong to remove a regime that was responsible for: over a million deaths, genocide, numerous UN chapter 7 violations, an attempted assassination of a US President, two wars, lobbing missiles at Israel, and giving refuge and money to terrorists?
For Christ sake the US and the UK had to engage in a small scale war with two no fly zones and almost daily bombing for over a decade to keep the Baathists from slaughtering the Kurds and Shiites. And economic sanctions were only hurting the innocent civilians of Iraq. Half measures were a disaster and Iraq was bribing its way clear of any oversight. After 911 it was time to end the failed strategies of the 90’s and deal with Saddam once and for all.



Because the cure is worse than the disease?
11-26-2005 07:14 PM
Botnst
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/26/2005 10:10 PM

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/26/2005 8:52 PM

Quote:
jjl - 11/26/2005 8:18 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 11/27/2005 1:08 AM

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/26/2005 4:03 PM

Are you just that morally vacuous that you have no sense of right or wrong, good or evil?
Or are you just an isolationist? Or just a political opportunist?
Of course I have a sense of 'right or wrong, good or evil'. I just lack the arrogance required to impose those subjective values on other societies. Who are you to impose your values on the rest of the world -- the moral police? I hate to break this to you, but fundamentalist Muslim morality differs markedly from your own, and their truth is just as valid to them as yours is to you.
So any belief system is of equal validity as any other? As someone once said 'liberalism for liberals, canibalism for canibals'. Also, fundamentalist muslims are bound by scripture to impose their 'truth' on you, me and everyone else. Kiss everything you value in life goodbye; music, art, literature, science, freedom of expression. To hell with that as a morally equivalent truth.
And what you are preaching is two wrongs, or countless wrongs, make right. Just because the other inhabitants of this planet don't agree with our form of government, or our means of conducting commerce, doesn't give us the authority to forcefully change them. And, Bot, we are forcing freedom on the Iraqis, aren't we? If we are not, what are we using guns for over there?

We can defend ourselves and our way of life without making the rest of the world subscribe to our ways. We would do better to focus on bringing their aggression against us to the attention of the rest of the world, and their heads of state, rather than escalating the aggression so as to alienate the rest of the world. Jim


Please tell why it was wrong to remove a regime that was responsible for: over a million deaths, genocide, numerous UN chapter 7 violations, an attempted assassination of a US President, two wars, lobbing missiles at Israel, and giving refuge and money to terrorists?
For Christ sake the US and the UK had to engage in a small scale war with two no fly zones and almost daily bombing for over a decade to keep the Baathists from slaughtering the Kurds and Shiites. And economic sanctions were only hurting the innocent civilians of Iraq. Half measures were a disaster and Iraq was bribing its way clear of any oversight. After 911 it was time to end the failed strategies of the 90’s and deal with Saddam once and for all.



Bush lied and Cheney is the anti-Christ. Nothing more to know.

Hope that helps.

Bot



11-26-2005 07:10 PM
chiphomme
RE: 10 reasons supporting the war in Iraq is a bunch of bullsh!t

Quote:
JimSmith - 11/26/2005 8:52 PM

Quote:
jjl - 11/26/2005 8:18 PM

Quote:
GermanStar - 11/27/2005 1:08 AM

Quote:
chiphomme - 11/26/2005 4:03 PM

Are you just that morally vacuous that you have no sense of right or wrong, good or evil?
Or are you just an isolationist? Or just a political opportunist?
Of course I have a sense of 'right or wrong, good or evil'. I just lack the arrogance required to impose those subjective values on other societies. Who are you to impose your values on the rest of the world -- the moral police? I hate to break this to you, but fundamentalist Muslim morality differs markedly from your own, and their truth is just as valid to them as yours is to you.
So any belief system is of equal validity as any other? As someone once said 'liberalism for liberals, canibalism for canibals'. Also, fundamentalist muslims are bound by scripture to impose their 'truth' on you, me and everyone else. Kiss everything you value in life goodbye; music, art, literature, science, freedom of expression. To hell with that as a morally equivalent truth.
And what you are preaching is two wrongs, or countless wrongs, make right. Just because the other inhabitants of this planet don't agree with our form of government, or our means of conducting commerce, doesn't give us the authority to forcefully change them. And, Bot, we are forcing freedom on the Iraqis, aren't we? If we are not, what are we using guns for over there?

We can defend ourselves and our way of life without making the rest of the world subscribe to our ways. We would do better to focus on bringing their aggression against us to the attention of the rest of the world, and their heads of state, rather than escalating the aggression so as to alienate the rest of the world. Jim


Please tell why it was wrong to remove a regime that was responsible for: over a million deaths, genocide, numerous UN chapter 7 violations, an attempted assassination of a US President, two wars, lobbing missiles at Israel, and giving refuge and money to terrorists?
For Christ sake the US and the UK had to engage in a small scale war with two no fly zones and almost daily bombing for over a decade to keep the Baathists from slaughtering the Kurds and Shiites. And economic sanctions were only hurting the innocent civilians of Iraq. Half measures were a disaster and Iraq was bribing its way clear of any oversight. After 911 it was time to end the failed strategies of the 90’s and deal with Saddam once and for all.




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