I've been driving W20x Mercedes since the early/mid 90's. My 2008 W245 is my 5th Benz. I will say that my perception is that the fit and finish isn't quite what it used to be but still quite good (maybe not Toyota/Honda good - but very acceptable and IMHO far more stylish).
I also perceive a lot of the "quality" issues come down to the electronics/controls in the newer vehicles. Mechanically I've never really had any notable problems but I tend to order a fairly basic car. My early cars had electro-mechanical systems and now they seem to be fully electronic. I live in a town with 2 dealers and can play one service centre off of the other which has provided good service and generous warranty success.
I guess what I'm saying is that I will continue to buy entry level MB's for the foreseeable furture - they evolve in a way I find acceptable and pleasureable.
PS: I will say this is my first front wheel drive car. There is a bit of torque steer but nothing that is offensive. The B is not as capable in the corners as the W20x rear drive vehicles but are still a fun sporty ride at a reasonable price (or at least a reasonable price for a premium brand).
I've been driving W20x Mercedes since the early/mid 90's. My 2008 W245 is my 5th Benz. I will say that my perception is that the fit and finish isn't quite what it used to be but still quite good (maybe not Toyota/Honda good - but very acceptable and IMHO far more stylish).
Unquote.
It's a sad day when we have to compare M/B quality against Toyota & Honda.
Years ago I aspired to owning a Mercedes, it was a dream, one of the best cars in the world (when youv'e got a Mercedes you've made it ).
Perhaps I was being a bit naive.
But yes, sorry to say, but I tend to agree with you Rael on these quality issues
I used to be quite a Volvo fan and owned a few of their cars. Volvo was once known to be reliable, bland, and built like a tank. That reputation isn't quite what it used to be! I think the general slippage in quality is pretty much a problem for every car manufacturer out there. You'd like to think the premium brands are immune to it - but they don't seem to be. I guess its all part of the do it for less, do it quicker, maximize profit mindset that pervades all industries. Pride in your work/product seems to take a backseat. Its almost acceptable in the value brands but a bit hard to accept in the premium brands.
I do note that much of the problems seem to be more of a minor nature versus significant failures. I also find that even with all their advanced diagnostics and electronics repairs are never straight forward and almost always seem to come down to "guess work". I had a '99 W202 that would spontaneously increase (in short spurts) the speed of the climate control fan. The dealer was quite good - he replaced parts and continued to replace parts till the problem was fixed. But that took 3 visits and the replacement of most of my HVAC system.
On the upside certain brands are getting much better - I'm thinking of the improvements at Jaguar. I'd almost consider one except for the price. Not fond of the X-Type styling, the S-Type is more than I'd want to spend, and the XJ is WAY out of my league.
Its funny to watch "Top Gear" (huge fan - we get it weekly buts the shows are always behind schedule a few months) and even the boys are positive about Jaguar, cautious about Mercedes, and quite negative about Aston Martin (re: quality). I guess you have to find a ride that "moves you" at some level and just accept it will have some issues and problems over the years. Kind of like a wife in that regards <grin>...
I've been driving W20x Mercedes since the early/mid 90's. My 2008 W245 is my 5th Benz. I will say that my perception is that the fit and finish isn't quite what it used to be but still quite good (maybe not Toyota/Honda good - but very acceptable and IMHO far more stylish).
Unquote.
It's a sad day when we have to compare M/B quality against Toyota & Honda.
Years ago I aspired to owning a Mercedes, it was a dream, one of the best cars in the world (when you've got a Mercedes you've made it ).
Perhaps I was being a bit naive.
But yes, sorry to say, but I tend to agree with you Rael on these quality issues
Like Mike T, I tend to keep my cars forever. My 69 Beetle with original paint(just sold after 35 years), my Camry which saw 23 salty Montreal winters with + 35 C to -40 C(my daily beater), the Camry would not die. Every electric window and sunroof never repaired, original AC without ever being serviced!!! I pray that the B will have some of that quality. Time will tell.....
[quote=Rael]I used to be quite a Volvo fan and owned a few of their cars. Volvo was once known to be reliable, bland, and built like a tank.
Unquote.
In the Uk we have a rival program to "Top Gear" called 5th Gear. In the last episode they drove a large (few year old) Volvo Estate and a small (micro MPV) Renault Modus into each other both travelling at 40 MPH surprisingly the Modus protected the occupants much better.
Quote
Its funny to watch "Top Gear" (huge fan - we get it weekly buts the shows are always behind schedule a few months) and even the boys are positive about Jaguar, cautious about Mercedes, and quite negative about Aston Martin (re: quality). I guess you have to find a ride that "moves you" at some level and just
unquote
Be very carefull about believing all that J.C. on the above show says he is very self opinionated, yes take it as a fun program, but a lot of 'facts' & opinions stated should be taken with a pinch of salt.
The trouble with motoring programs is that they never seem to compare like for like or test a car for either its true purpose or value for money everything seems to get compared to a super sports car.
The biggest joke of all was that J.C. of the above show raved about & bought (I think it was a Ford muscle car) & I seem to remember he hardly ever completed a journey in it due to it constantly breaking down. Some motoring correspondent eh
For me the show is quite funny to watch as I like the dynamic between the three of them - never quite sure if they hate each other, like each other, or are ambivalent about each other. The presentation and camera work is exceptional compared to what we get here. Our shows tend to be dry and fact based - I like a little drama and a little fiction. Other than cheerful econoboxes, cars should be about passion...
Their opinions are often rubbish since they seem to be driving the cream of the crop most of the time (or comparing value brands against the cream of the crop) and how informed can you be if you have a car for a week or two. I'm also not much of a speed/power person - I love going around a corner fast / fast enough to frighten myself occassionally - but you don't need a very powerful car to do that. Just a bit of skill and a car that handles properly.
My comments re: Volvo, Jaguar, Astin Martin seem to be held by the likes of JD Powers and other semi-reputable sources. I always take this stuff with a grain of salt - you have to think there is a bit of give and take with reviewers - otherwise why would a manufacturer ever submit a car for review.
Mind you - I've watched a few discussions about quality on this and other boards where people have had a problem (that wasn't fixed/solved quickly) and have made blanket declarations that that the entire brand is rubbish based on their one incident. I also note opinions/expectations are different between Europe and North America. For the most part VW is seen to be a marginal brand for quality in North America (and because of it doesn't experience the same strong sales it sees in Europe). When I visit Europe (either for work or for pleasure) there are lots of VWs on the roads and owners seem pleased. My last visit I had a Golf+ which felt similiar in size to the B class - nice car with good styling (we don't get it in N.A.)...
PS: He ditched the Ford GT for a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder - which his "ultimate woman" Kristen Scott Thomas ridiculed on the show from a few months back (it was just broadcast in Canada). James and Richard spent most of the show afterwards laughing about it much to Jeremy's misery...
Yes they can be entertaining & and dramatic at times (has the Hammond crash been on yet ?)
VW used to be regarded as reliable & quality car in the UK but again, sad to say, the Japanese seem to come up tops now for reliability. (never had one though)
How are you getting on with your B class. I expect you'll be getting some 'interesting' driving soon with winter coming on.
Linear Mode
