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2001 S500 Starter Location

17K views 18 replies 6 participants last post by  GaryDG 
#1 ·
Where is the starter on a S500 2001 - moreover is there a source for finding the location of most major engine / electrical components?

Thanks!
 
#3 ·
I have a no start issue

I know what starter/starter solenoid looks like, and yes I did look under the hood.

I didn't see it that's why I posted the question.

I have a no start problem that I am trying to diagnose, part of that calls for verification of power at starter when ignition is engaged.

Power from battery through rear main fuse, power at rear SAM, power through fuse under front passenger foot area. No crank, other power features work when ignition is on. Main display panel flashes on and off when ignition start position engaged.
 
#6 ·
Starter Location

Keyhole,

Thanks for the link to those schematics! It showed where the starter is on my vehicle and others. In my case, (S500, 2001) the starter and solenoid is not visible from the top and may not be from the bottom without removing the engine plate. Not good news in my case as I simply wanted to see if there was power at the starter/solenoid when the ignition was invoked.

Thanks again!
 
#8 ·
Not good news in my case as I simply wanted to see if there was power at the starter/solenoid ...
When you turn the key to start the engine the ignition switch module sends a CAN message to the engine management controller (N3/10) to start the engine; N3/10 then energizes a relay that switches power to the motor starter solenoid. The relay for the starter is located in the under-hood passenger-side (LHD) fusebox (see attachment).

I would first check that fuse 49 in the passenger-side fusebox is okay -- it supplies power to the motor starter solenoid through the starter relay. If it is okay, I would then locate the starter relay and touch it while someone turns the key to see if you can feel it energizing. Another test would be to remove the relay, jumper the relay sockets #30 and #87 with a wire, and turn the key on: this should engage the motor starter.
 

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#7 ·
Star

Bobterry:

Thanks for that link to Starfinder and Autodesk.

After reading those posts and following a few links I concluded that it is not possible to use that software without the use of an older computers running an older version of windows and IE.

The link you provided did have a portion that worked on my 64bit pc/operating system and it seemed to describe error codes but I am not sure which error reader it is associated with.

If you or anyone has a different conclusion than the one I have please update.

Thanks again.
 
#9 ·
" Another test would be to remove the relay, jumper the relay sockets #30 and #87 with a wire, and turn the key on: this should engage the motor starter."

I have no direct knowledge of this, but want to throw out a caution...

The DIN wiring standard says that "30" is a battery power bus - always hot. "15" is a switched power bus. Based upon this, I would expect the starter to operate immediately upon installing the jumper.

Remember - this is based only upon the DIN standard, not personal knowledge, so you may very well be correct.
 
#11 ·
The DIN wiring standard says that "30" is a battery power bus - always hot. "15" is a switched power bus.
In this case the "30" references the identity of the pin/socket of the relay and not the vehicle circuit into which the relay is installed. Fuse 49 which powers the starter solenoid through the relay is on circuit 15.

If the relay jump does not work, jack up the car, and hit the starter with a hammer or similar object while somebody turns the key.
Years ago I extended the useful life of a starter by clamping a vice grip on the ignition key to hold it in position 3 while I hit the starter with a pool cue.
 
#12 ·
Thanks guys, the wiki page https://w220.ee/Starter was updated with the information.

bobterry99: are you sure that Fuse 49 powers starter relay? According to fuse diagram F49 gives power to ignition coils.

If I understand correctly, if #30 and #87 are connected with a wire, starter motor will engage even after engine has started and no matter if the key in EIS is in starting position (as long as C.15 is on). Won't this damage starter if engine is left running for some time?
 
#13 ·
bobterry99: are you sure that Fuse 49 powers starter relay?
NO, I misread the schematic. In fact there is no fuse, and the starter solenoid is powered directly from the ignition switch circuit 15.

bobterry99: are you sure that Fuse 49 powers starter relay? According to fuse diagram F49 gives power to ignition coils.

If I understand correctly, if #30 and #87 are connected with a wire, starter motor will engage even after engine has started...
I would leave the jumper in place just long enough to serve your purposes. You might remove it the moment you hear the engine turning; you might remove it the moment the engine starts.
 
#15 ·
I haven't done the above diagnostics yet, but another post(s) said try the second key. So I just tried the second key and among other messages I got on the instrument panel (very briefly) was the message "Selector Lever To P" in an orange-red box. I tried the original key and the message presented itself as well-just didn't notice. The lever is in P, I moved it around a bit in its position (as the lever will not move out of P), but no status change. Does this provide any thinking?
 
#18 ·
The lever is in P, I moved it around a bit in its position (as the lever will not move out of P), but no status change. Does this provide any thinking?
If you can't shift out of Park with the key on and your foot on the brake you have another problem -- you may succeed in starting the engine, but you likely won't be going anywhere.

In regard to the message, I suppose with the key on the cluster indicated the shifter was in Park. If you turn the key and consistently get a message to shift to Park, then that is a problem.
 
#16 · (Edited)
wallyp;15642074 I have no direct knowledge of this said:
The DIN wiring standard says that "30" is a battery power bus - always hot. "15" is a switched power bus. Based upon this, I would expect the starter to operate immediately upon installing the jumper.
It WILL - if the starter is working OK.

You really need a helper here. One to install the jumper into the start relay socket, and one to turn the key into the Start position. Shift lever in P or N.

Here's a WIS document about the Start control
 

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#17 ·
The most common failure for a starter is stuck or worn brushes - a cheap, easy fix. You also can have the starter rebuilt (usually new brushes and bearings, checking, cleaning and painting) for a reasonable cost at a local auto electric shop. This is not a standard garage or shop, but a business that specializes in repairing/rebuilding electric motors, starters, generators, alternators, etc.
 
#19 ·
"Selector Lever To P"

BobTerry

Your wrote
If you can't shift out of Park with the key on and your foot on the brake you have another problem -- you may succeed in starting the engine, but you likely won't be going anywhere.

I believe I never had to depress the brake pedal to start the car, when I could start it. However, I tried to start it with the brake pedal depressed and it still did not engage the starter. The lever is locked in Park.


In regard to the message, I suppose with the key on the cluster indicated the shifter was in Park. If you turn the key and consistently get a message to shift to Park, then that is a problem.

The message I get is "Selector Lever To P".

Can anyone provide a link to the electrical diagram?

Thanks!

Gary
 
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