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The 2003 S55 coming along but

8K views 81 replies 19 participants last post by  luigi4 
#1 · (Edited)
So the S55 is coming along. Trunk fixed, tires replaced, belts replaced, engine cleaning well on its way. New engine cover will be picked up Monday.

So the main issue I am having right now is the coolant system is not build pressure. It was at one point, I thought it might have been the cap so I switched out the cap from my S430 and put the one from the S55 and the one from the S55 on the S430. Drove the S430 around it had a ton of pressure. Left the S55 running for over a hour with the S430 cap no pressure built up.

I had the S55 out on the road yesterday(with it's cap) same no pressure in the system. The drive was 59 km or 36 miles. The coolant is going somewhere. The oil level is always the same. I did remove the engine oil filler cap and there was a little bit of steam present. My gauge on the dash is saying 80ºC ish but my X431 is saying 100ºC see PDF

I did like Kraut56 mentioned and ran my overflow hose into a water bottle empty. So the coolant is going some were.
One other odd thing if i turn the key to the position where all the dash lights come on but the car is not running I here all kinds of liquid moving around behind the radio. I am still getting the Oil Level Visit Workshop. I can clear it but keeps coming back. I need to find where this sensor is as it was the first warning I got when the belt broke.

You want to know the real kicker about this car. Not sure if I really want to bring it up or admit. I was cleaning my computer of data cards and AutoChecks I had accumulated on the cars I was checking out. I had an extra DATA CARD from this S55. So I went to place it in the folder with all the DATA CARDS and my Mac said do you want to replace the or keep both. I looked at the date on the one in the folder it was from Nov 2014. I bought the car I started the thread on in Nov. I never thought of checking the VIN against other VINs when I bought it. As I did not buy it from the car lot I look at it on. Feel like just an idiot. I thought I checked everything. Thought I did my do diligence, asked all questions, got people opinions and so, but overlooked the most obvious.
You guys can laugh or say whatever you think. I just really need to figure out this coolant issue now and really need help.
I do appreciate help and I really hate asking now after the above.
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#2 ·
You mention you hear the coolant inside the car. With the vehicle cool, pump the top radiator hose to remove any air you may have in the system and see if you observe bubbles in the reservoir tank.
 
#5 ·
Video of the S430
Both have been sitting for about the same amount of time. The S430 about ten to fifteen minutes longer
I do not get this noise I actually let the S430 record longer. I have never heard the water sound in the S430.
 
#7 ·
Any chance of performing a coolant pressure test? I am new to the W220, but that is what I have done of prior vehicles when pressure was not proper. Often the pressure test would show a leaking lower intake manifold gasket, starting to fail water pump, or hairline crack in the radiator.
 
#8 ·
"Still do not understand why I am not getting any pressure to build up, with a air lock you would still get pressure correct?"

Not so much - at least until the engine starts getting really hot. The reason for having a pressurized cooling system is to help prevent the coolant from boiling. Boiling obviously can result in loss of coolant, but there is another important factor. If the engine gets hotter than normal, and you have little or no pressure on the system, you can get hot spots in the cylinder head. The coolant can boil only at those hot spots, resulting in steam pockets and localized overheating. this uneven heating can be destructive, causing erosion, warpage, cracking, etc.

There are a couple of ways that the system pressure builds - expansion of the coolant and evaporation of the coolant. Consider two situations:the coolant system is completely full; and the system is low on coolant, containing a sizeable quantity of air.

The expansion of coolant in the full system is a very powerful force, but that force has little range - that is, if there is a little "room for expansion" (such as a little give in the rubber hoses), then little or no coolant will be forced from the pressure cap. If the engine gets hot enough to start evaporating coolant at a high rate, and then to boil the coolant even at the higher system pressures, coolant will be forced from the cap.

In the partially-filled system, the expansion of the coolant will never cause enough pressure rise to be noticeable, because the air furnishes a lot of room for expansion. But that means that the only reason for a pressure increase will be rapid evaporation of coolant and expansion of the air. If your engine is not getting hot enough to cause rapid evaporation of the coolant, and if you have a tiny leak in the system, it is easier for air to escape than for coolant, and you might not see the leak. You would probably see high pressure only if the engine was overheating.

There are only two ways to have air in the system: a coolant lock when filling; or air entrainment thru a pump seal, which is not likely at all. When I have had an air lock, it took high-RPM operation for a couple of minutes for the pump to develop enough flow to force the air thru the system to the coolant tank. The suggestion to have the heat on full hot is a good one, and so is the suggestion to pressurize the system. Unfortunately, the car doesn't use the standard USA pressure cap, so the pressure testers might not work on our cars. It's worth checking with Autozone or Advance to see if their tool loan program includes a pressure tester with a cap adapter that will work on our cars.

Sorry - I seem to be rambling on this morning...
 
#9 ·
I drove the car a good 200km and it was normal operating temp all the time. I did notice that if the heater is off it runs a bit warmer. I am going to go down and try running the car again at higher RPM and pumping the upper hose to see if it will get the air out. I will have the heat on full as well.

Any ideas on the water sound in the video. Never in my life heard anything like that
 
#12 ·
I know this is off topic But I am so F**KING P**SED

What I woke up to this morning my 1988 300CE completely trashed



On the S55 I pumped the upper rad hose for a real long time but still seems to be no pressure. I will bring it in and have it pressured tested. I did notice that there is sight white smoke just from the right tailpipe.
 
#13 ·
Greetings,

Last year I replaced all the coolant in my S600. It was very difficult to remove all the air from the system until I used a vacuum tool assist. (past purchase from Amazon) Unfortunately I also repaired/replaced the front heater circulation pump this winter (another job which requires removal of air from the cooling system).

Difficult past experience removing air pockets in a Jaguar V-12 and recently a mini-cooper engine, I am a firm believer in how this tool makes it much easier to refill the system, eliminate air pockets, and be confident that system is completely full.

Many engines are designed such that it is relatively easy to remove air pockets - I 'm not so sure the MB engines with the heater circulation pumps (& duo-valves) fit into this catagory. I know WIS recommends using a vacuum tool to replace the coolant. (see attachment).

This may not be an exact answer to your noise issue but I wanted to share some positive past experiences.
 

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#16 ·
I am generally a pretty easy to get along with guy. I have made almost 50 years and never been in a fight.
I did have an issue with someone in our complex on Friday. The thing is I think he was on meds and now is not. I have no proof that he did it but I feel deep down he did.

The worst part is the only reason the car was out is I put my S430 in the garage next to the S55 to do some comparisons(water noise) the coupe is never outside always in the garage covered. Never sees snow rarely sees rain. I would take it out in the winter when it is extremely cold and dry so the salt is not an issue.
 
#21 ·
Hey Scott ... I only skimmed the thread but I have a couple random thoughts and questions:

- Are you losing coolant? Since you say there's no pressure (I assume from squeezing hoses) then I'd expect the coolant loss to be VERY rapid
- Assuming you're losing coolant (rapidly) my first thought is cracked head. If it's going into a cylinder, then that cylinder would be steamed clean. Consider getting a bore scope and looking at the tops of the piston. The clean one will show the crack
- In my experience with head gasket failures, usually the symptom is an over-pressurized cooling system, think hoses blowing off. Pressures get VERY high during combustion, and combustion gases will push from the chamber into the coolant. I don't think I have heard of a head gasket failure causing loss into the cylinder, but I have heard of head cracks causing this (not sure how or why)
- You can test for combustion gases in the coolant using a "combustion leak tester", it's a chemical test available from parts stores which works quite well.
- As has been mentioned, you can also do a coolant system pressure test which pushes compressed air through the expansion chamber test at like 10-20 psi. You can listen/look for leaks that way.
- I would also suggest getting the car up on a lift, remove the undertrays, and look for coolant drips / dried coolant.

Just some ideas, hope it's helpful. I'm not a professional but I tend to spend all of my spare time and money on cars :)
 
#22 ·
All very good ideas.
Coolant is not a quick leak.
There is no bubbling in the coolant tank at all with the car running at cold or operating temp.
On Sunday I was down while it was running and I squeezed the upper rad hose I did get bubbles so I might have had air trapped in the system.
Once I changed the oil it looks fine. The car runs very strong, very smooth(at idle you would not even know it is running actually got a coin to balance on it while it was running), I am actually bring it over to an emission place to have the emission test done and was going to ask if they will sniff the coolant tank as well.
I do get a very small amount of white smoke from the right exhaust tip. Does not smell like coolant nor have the coolant feel to it.

Here is something I found out about these supercharged M113 the double idler pulley is a design flaw the inside which is for the serpentine belt is plastic and just designates(happened to mine) when it broke it took out the oil level sensor. A two part pulley which can only be bought as a set. Found these on eBay and an very impressed with it will cost you a lot less ran me $315 Canadian exchange, duties Pay Pal fee and so on
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#24 · (Edited)
Battery and sitting

So everyone knows that my S55 is coming along. I actually have not really looked/done anything with it since Sunday. Because the coupe is taking up away too much time dealing with police, detectives, body shop, towing and insurance adjusters.
I have not pressure tested the coolant system I did try and get the air out of the coolant system on the on before the coupe was wrecked

So my question is I have had a 2 amp battery charger on the car with the Mercedes Benz brand battery. I have done this because everyone says these cars are alive all the time. So is this doing good or harm?
My thoughts are the car is not getting started or driven that much. Prime example when the belt broke the car sat for 9 days without starting. Then I think I drove it twice in between then and today, I had it started it on Sunday to try and bleed the coolant system

Am I on the right track or should I just take the charger off


Here are pictures of my coupe I am still beyond pissed sorry about the language. The insurance adjuster said the engine needs to come apart because of the sugar in the oil filler cap
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#31 ·
So everyone knows that my S55 is coming along. I actually have not really looked/done anything with it since Sunday. Because the coupe is taking up away too much time dealing with police, detectives, body shop, towing and insurance adjusters.
I have not pressure tested the coolant system I did try and get the air out of the coolant system on the on before the coupe was wrecked

So my question is I have had a 2 amp battery charger on the car with the Mercedes Benz brand battery. I have done this because everyone says these cars are alive all the time. So is this doing good or harm?
My thoughts are the car is not getting started or driven that much. Prime example when the belt broke the car sat for 9 days without starting. Then I think I drove it twice in between then and today, I had it started it on Sunday to try and bleed the coolant system

Am I on the right track or should I just take the charger off


Here are pictures of my coupe I am still beyond pissed sorry about the language. The insurance adjuster said the engine needs to come apart because of the sugar in the oil filler cap
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:|

I'm at a loss for words.. hopefully the person who did this gets caught.
 
#28 ·
The police feel that the alleged did it over hours. Came by keyed it, then came back did the tires, came back did the interior and engine. Then when the city started to wake up did the window. As were I am we have these trolleys(see picture below)which are pretty loud and they really start running pretty steady around 5am
Might not be in the order above but they really think that the window was last once the steercars were running and people had radios/TVs on.
I believe that he pulled the spark plug leads off so that I would just keep cranking and cranking it to see if it would start. This way sugar will be sucked into the complete system and the oil in the engine would be mixed in.

The alleged is a guy who is up all night and goes around to collect bottles/cans he says for something to do. I know that he does many trips back to and from.

I really deep down believe he was on meds and now he is off. Like I say he used to come by shoot the shit at my garage. I know he was fired from the company he worked for( a huge company) so up here they seem to like to package people out instead of just out right firing them. So I am wondering when he stopped talking to me last fall and he started in on other people his health insurance ended so meds are not covered. I never seen anyone go from okay to asshole like a flick of a switch and stay that way.
This is just my thoughts I have no proof he was on meds or anything.

The car seems like it will be totaled out as they say the engine needs to come completely apart to make sure all the white stuff is gone. The adjust explained it as if the oil was hot the sugar would melt and it would not be to bad. The problem is the sugar will travel through every thing as the oil is cols and it will get into bearing, passage ways etc.

Regarding the 2amp battery, you're more than fine. In fact, that's exactly what people do with their exotic cars -- hook it up to a battery tender whee the car is going to sit for months.
Good to know about the battery. Just was not sure in 2 amps was too much or not enough.
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#35 ·
I'm sicked by what happened to your 124.

I can at some level understand the thief, taking something they can use or sell to get something they want/need.

But I'll never for the life of me understand just destroying something, ruining it like that.

Such people should be beaten with sticks. :/

Good luck with it all. :(
 
#37 · (Edited)
Well like I have said never had a claim in almost 34 years of driving, so I had no idea what is supposed to happen.

I knew that the insurance adjuster was going to take a look at it today. I was kind of expecting a call. He was going to be there between 10am-1pm. So at 4:30pm I called the body shop. His exact words the adjuster said this is bad does not look good, seems to be a total loss.

I have not heard that from the adjuster yet this was just the body shop owner said.
So I have no idea if I wait for him to call or do I call him.

I am actually not overly happy that it looks like the car is a total loss, deep down I was kind of hoping that it would be repaired.

Some people really know how to wreck a person's week(plus). The one good thing is the car is out of my sight so I am not seeing it everyday and boiling over it.

You bet I'm still checking in - every day, every new post. What was done to your car is sickening. Reminds me of "A Clockwork Orange."

I don't want to hijack your thread - I wrote my observations on the W220 and W221 at post 27, http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w221-s-class/1641912-w220-vs-w221-pros-cons-3.html and I still think the W220 is a great car (especially the S55).

I have done less than 100 miles per week so far - I do not have to drive much currently. However, I have a 2000 mile round trip coming up in a few weeks, we'll give it a good shakedown.

Back to your thread!!

I can't verify this, but post 2 of the thread at Total number of cars built per year? - MBWorld.org Forums indicates there were 1754 S55 AMGs built in 2003, for the US market. Further posts in the thread say the numbers worldwide won't be released. That doesn't help much for Canada, but it does indicate a very limited production. Total production of the W220 (all models) was around 485,000, but I don't have the breakdown by year.
You can highjack a thread of mine anytime. Also it is great that you check in here everyday.
You put about the same amount of mileage a week as I do maybe a bit more.

Great post on the W221! Very glad you like it. The looks do grow on you and the facelift are much nicer.

Yes you are right about the "Clockwork Orange" and the coupe. Yes it is sickening, I just do not understand what trashing my car or anyone's car solves.
So now there is a first year production model of this 1988 300CE done. Everyone says that it is very rare to have a rear window sunshade in the coupe. The dealer said they cannot find the one for the coupe. That was also broken. The body shop called it a survivor car as it was above 85% of it original state/parts. So this car was struck down before it ever had a chance to become a true classic. I always believed one day the 300CE would be a car that people wanted. Another 30 years or so.
I think that the survivor is tossed around pretty loosely now because of shows like Overhaulen, Counting Cars etc.

I contacted the AMG Lounge and they said that they could not give out numbers. Which I think is kind of ridiculous, they keep saying that the cars are limit production hand built engine and so on but will not say 25,000 were made or whatever number.
Someone else told me that the transmissions have upgraded components as well. Like were the stock transmission has plastic/nylon bushing parts the S55 has brass. Have no idea if this is true, I which I could remember who told me that.

With the coupe taking up so much time and my wife's birthday last Friday I never really did anything to the S55 but place the new front engine cover on. I really need to figure out if it needs a head gasket or not. The member that replaced his engine(Engine Knock) has a set of heads. This would save so much down time. I could send his out and when they came back start removing the heads and replace both. This way I am not waiting for mine to go to the machine shop. I still need to find the oil level sensor and get that straightened out as I get the Oil Level Visit Workshop warning. I keep clearing it and it might stay off for 5 seconds to a hour or anytime in between. Like I say it was the first warning I got on the dash when the belt broke.

Really all that is left is
The oil level/quality sensor
The coolant issue/head gasket or not and second oil change
The keyless go
The Tele-Aide
Not too worried about the Tele-Aide simple bring it into to an indie shop have it turned off. I will get the Keyless go looked at as I have one fob and the Keyless go card. See which is easier new fob or if the Keyless go just needs cleared and reset.

My big worry is the engine if it has a coolant leak into the engine. If it does where? Someone mentioned the front engine cover could cause a coolant leak into the oil.

When I was running it to try and see if I could get the airlock out if any(car was not building pressure in the coolant system) I did get the car up to 80ºC and was getting some big bubbles when I pumped the upper engine hose. I think it is building a bit of pressure now. The thing I did notice is that only the right side exhaust tip had very faint trace of white smoke while the left was fine. There was condensation on the rear bumper above the right exhaust tip did not feel like coolant.
The other thing it still is not that warm. Today my S430 was pumping white smoke for a while and when I was checking the S55 it was last Sunday 19th which was really pretty chilly.

Sometimes I wish I was not such a perfectionist that if the car came with it, the option should work. I know I will get the Keyless go working but that is lower on the priority list.

Then the thing I love best cleaning it to my standards leather cleaned, treated, glass, carpets, vents, wood all cleaned body clay bar/polished deodorized smells like cigar smoke very faintly.
 
#39 ·
I have to get it pressure tested.

I was looking at buying a pressure tester set but they are stupid money for cheap crap.

I did try a friends universal the one where you tighten the rubber plug in the neck. Takes two people one to hold it in and one to pump it up. Could not get more then 15psi or the rubber plug would rocket-ship out. It was kind of hold pressure at 15psi slowly loosing but not sure if it was the rubber insert or the car.

I am thinking about buy a rad cap and retro fitting an air fitting into the cap and use my compressor to test.

The tanks states 1.4-2.0 bar if my calculations are correct that is 20-29 psi.
Figure I will either set the regulator on the compressor to 20psi, just use a bicycle pump or just an air vessel(portable tire tanks with no compressor) to charge the system.
If I cannot find an external leak I will start pulling spark plug right bank first and listen for air as that was the side with white smoke very faint but there.

I might go buy an inspection camera as well to see in the cylinder.
All this would still cost less then sending it in for a head-gasket diagnostic test.

I want to get this figured out if the heads need to come off as like I mentioned above some where the member that started the thread "Engine Knock Diagnoses" has a set for sale. This way if it is a head gasket I would be sending the heads out to be inspected planned valve guides and seals since they are off and not a fan of just sending one head out to be serviced. Because you have one nice new head and one with 100,000 miles on it. I like to do thinks in pairs keeps everything balanced. So if I can lock this up that it is a head gasket gone I will buy his keeping my car mobile while his heads are at the machine shop. Once they are done replace both. My garage is tight so having the car sit a couple weeks and not being able to move would suck. Getting kids bikes out and so on.

I was googling people say the inter-cooler under the supercharger will give you a false head gasket symptom or it might just dump coolant into the oil. Not sure about this you cannot believe everything on the web. Front engine cover was mentioned, water pump "O" ring at the front cover so many things listed on these to give a false head gasket and coolant in the oil.
Everyone I talk to say it is very very rare to have a head gasket go on this M133 supercharged or not.
 
#40 ·
If the insurance totals it you can always buy it back for the salvage value. Seats you can find in a salvage yard, the headlights are the most painful. The windshield is costly, too, not sure if a salvage yard would be able to get one out without breaking it.

The engine wouldn't be that bad, since you didn't start it. Pull the valve cover, suck out and clean up the sugar, run it a bit and change the oil after that. Whatever residual there might be shouldn't be a problem. The fuel tank is a slightly bigger hit, but there's the terrific drain in the bottom of it, so you could clean it out without too much effort. Just have to figure out what to do with all of the contaminated gas...maybe spray it on the violator's lawn to kill all his grass? :p (Just kidding.)

The paint...well, seal it up if it's through the primer and think about it while you fix the rest.

All in all it might be kind of a fun project in a sense for you and the son, and it would be a way of saying "no way, you're not getting the best of me" to the guy as well. I mean if the car is in good mechanical condition, seems a waste for what is largely cosmetic damage.
 
#42 ·
Reminds me of that Christmas carol. The one that goes... "Chet's nuts roasting on an open fire......" and something about a "warm and cheering glow"
 
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