engine oil difference between 229.3 and 229.5

[tower]

So that I didn't hijack a thread, I've started a new one to see if I can understand the difference between 229.3 and 229.5 spec oil.

Gabby 07621 was kind enough to post the comparison between 229.1 spec oils and both of these, but, I am wondering exactly what the difference between the 229.3 and 229.5 oil is. I'm driving an 02S500 and was told that 229.5 should go in, but, locally I'm having a hard time sourcing it. Castrol makes a 229.3 that is available. I was wondering exactly what the difference is. If I maintain the sheep's wool filter, can I go to a 229.3 oil and if so, what should I use as the drain interval. Anybody care to expand on my knowledge please?

[keyhole]

All about it here...

"Vehicles with the Mercedes Maintenance System starting with MY2005 can use 229.5 or 229.51 oils.

Vehicles with the Flexible Service System FSS from MY1998-2004 can use 229.5, 229.51 or 229.3 oils.

229.5 and 229.51 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter when used with the Mercedes Maintenance System (MY2005+) in M112, M113, M272 and M273 engines. With FSS paper filters are fine.

MB sheet 229.1 approved oils
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines, used to be minimum spec for latest (98+) engines, high detergent, dispersant spec suitable for normal drain intervals. Based on ACEA A3, B3. Note 229.1 oils are not recommended for MB's latest (2002+) 4 valve gas M271, M275, M285 and diesel OM646, OM647, OM648 engines.

MB sheet 229.3 approved oils
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain interval indicator FSS up to 20,000 km, or 40,000 km - 25,000 mi, current minimum spec for 1998+ MB engines, min. 1.0% fuel saving compared to 229.1, based on ACEA A3 B4. For gas engine of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with Euro 4 diesel particle filters).

MB sheet 229.31 approved oils; LA "low ash" Oils
Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with EURO 4 or Bluetec exhaust particle filters, e.g. W211 E200 CDI, E220 CDI. The spec was introduced 7/2003. They are called LA "low ash" or "low SAPS" oils, low on sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulphur to limit exhaust particle filter pollution. In 2004 the ACEA introduced the new C3 spec (mid SAPS, normal viscosity) based on it. Change intervals extend to 15,000 km.

MB sheet 229.5 approved oils; "MB Longlife Service Oils"
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain intervals beyond 229.3 oils, to 30,000 km, min 1.8% fuel saving, first oils introduced summer 2002. ACEA A3 B4. For gas engines of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with Euro 4 diesel particle filters).
229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils.

MB sheet 229.51 approved oils; low ash long life
Mercedes pioneered this new spec for passenger cars with diesel engines with EURO 4 or Bluetec exhaust particle filters and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. The spec was introduced in 2005. Change intervals increased to 20,000 kilometers. Based on ACEA A3 B4 and C3."

[tower]

Excellent. I last changed with a 229.3 base Castrol with 229.3 written right on the bottle. I was very suspicious when I couldn't find the oil spec in the owners manual, and had the similar feeling as I remembered reading that the 229.5 spec didn't come out until late 2002. My car is a MY2002, so it was built in 2001, which means the design was based on the pre-2002 229.5 release. Oil prices are substantially less for this version of spec so if I'm not getting anything from the higher spec, there is really no good reason to install it instead. I do use the FSS system to trigger the oil change interval. Should I do it more often with the 229.3 oil?

Can I also use the 229.31 spec or the 229.51 spec in this gas engine as well? Should I also continue to use the fleece oil filter with the 229.3x oil?

[keyhole]

It takes a bit of comprehending I know, but the way I understand it is this:

a) 229.3 was designed for use with a paper filter on gas engines with MY 1998 - 2004, and for a drain period of max 20K km (12K miles) It will not hurt to use a fleece filter here - just not necessary.

b) 229.5 was designed for use with a fleece filter on gas engines with MY 2005 onwards, and for an extended drain period of max 30K km (16K miles) However, it is also backwards compatible and could be used gas engines MY 1998 - 2004 with a paper filter, provided you do not exceed the 12K mile drain period. (a paper filter would disintegrate beyond that mileage)

c) 229.31 and 229.51 are designed for diesel engines only.

Note: On my 2004 CLK, at the cluster service menu, I can inform the system if I am using 229.3 or 229.5 oil, for the service computer to work out the oil change period.

[tower]

Thanks keyhole, that was my interpretation as well.

I will state that I have inquired previously at the dealer and waiting for confirmation from them.

Thanks again all

[tower]

Okay, here is the word from the Mercedes dealership. It is alright to continue to use the 229.3 oil in my vehicle, that was what it was designed for. That makes for a large saving for me and a larger variety of available approved oils. Interestingly, I can also use a paper filter (oem approved) with this oil and do not require an increase in oil change frequency (ie FSS values can still be used).

I have owned this 02S500 for just under 1 year. Since inception the local MB dealer parts department have been staunch advocates of using the 229.5 specified motor oil. This may have been due to the ignorance of the parts counter rep but most likely it is due to the business accountant not wanting to stock the two different varieties of oil at different price points. Exactly why should I be paying a premium for no net advantage?

The next loaded question is then what other consumables are overrated and unnecessary? As an example, the owners manual for this vehicle recommend using 91 octane (or 92 and is average of mon & ron). A lot of people I know think it is better to use the highest octane they can find.....wrong. Just wasting money. Depending on the method used to raise the octane level, you may be getting less BTU's in the fuel your buying.

Anybody out there with some recommendations that still hit the OEM specs with out blowing over on what is required.