this test indicates that the front passenger side strut is leaking, and needs to be resealed, probably with the existing fix kit from Merz Part #2203202538. This test was carried out with the car running in idle, and then pressing the "lift vehicle" button on the dashboard - to reallly increase the pressure inside the strut. It took about 30 sec for the bubbles to then escape.
WOAH! My car was not bubbling up THAT much! Mine had very small bubbles, like this size (.)
AND my struts sank as soon as I turned the car off! Wonder what your's is like......
Vehicle: Merz 2002 S500 W220.175 -owner since Oct.2008
Location: The Great White North - Canada
Posts: 26
Impressive, isn't it! during normal height, idling, I don't get any visible leaks (first 10 seconds of video). The big bubbles only happen after raising the vehicle with the button on dashboard. when I turn off the car it does leak overnight, but not too much. The wheel gets into the wheel well only while rough road conditions. I started to get the "car low" airmatic warning only when going over bumpy roads, as if it lost air during compression, and the pump did not re-inflate, which I believe from other posts here that the pump stops after a certain amount of continuous operation. The back end of the car at that point is quite high - probably from over-inflation. The struts, pump and relay seem okay, for now, since it does re-inflate when turning the car on.
In thinking about this problem, does anyone know why the struts have a "removable" seal on the top? I mentioned this problem to a "plummer" friend and he said "why not solder the existing cap, to seal it?" he said it can be undone, and cleaned in the future, and that it should withstand the high pressures within the strut. any comments? ideas? When and why is the upper seal cap designed to be removed - to fix the strut? I was under the impression that the strut usually needs full replacement if damaged (and in pairs).
In terms of pressure, I also wonder about the plastic tube feeding the strut via the valve - how much pressure is actually produced in the strut? The clear plastic tube doesn't seem to need to handle high pressure - right? what does the valve actually do? help to get air into the high-pressure strut from the low-pressure tube?
Sorry for all the questions - just trying to understand and properly fix the problem.
Vehicle: Mercedes S500L W220 Gilera Runner 180sp BMW 323i SE E46 Suzuki GSX-R 600 K4
Location: London
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by carloslameiro
In thinking about this problem, does anyone know why the struts have a "removable" seal on the top? I mentioned this problem to a "plummer" friend and he said "why not solder the existing cap, to seal it?" he said it can be undone, and cleaned in the future, and that it should withstand the high pressures within the strut. any comments? ideas? When and why is the upper seal cap designed to be removed - to fix the strut? I was under the impression that the strut usually needs full replacement if damaged (and in pairs).
In terms of pressure, I also wonder about the plastic tube feeding the strut via the valve - how much pressure is actually produced in the strut? The clear plastic tube doesn't seem to need to handle high pressure - right? what does the valve actually do? help to get air into the high-pressure strut from the low-pressure tube?
Sorry for all the questions - just trying to understand and properly fix the problem.
I would also like an answer to this question! Very good
You're asking "whys" on the strut seal design. I don't know, and it doesn't matter. If you have a leaking top seal, be happy that the repair costs only about $550 for both sides, vice $3200 to replace the struts entirely.
I would characterize the seal as being "replaceable" and not just "removable." There are several designs of the actual seal itself. Some leaks are caused by a fault in the seal itself; others, by cracks in the metal surrounding the seal, opening up a leak. Replacement is the answer, not solder. Best to take your car to a certified MB tech, and not to a plumber, for repair.
I don't know the system pressures, but the type of plastic used in the tubes is quite strong.
Thanks for your video - it is very helpful in assisting others to recognize the upper seal problem. Whatever the pressures, they are likely higher when the car is raised (and may be higher when the strut response is set to Sport 1 or 2).
The point is, you definitely have a leak - and it is best to get it fixed properly.
__________________
2005 S500 4-Matic
with Gateway 500 iPod integration
1978 450SL restoration project
Formerly: 2000 S500
with Ice>Link iPod integration
Moto V710 phone with MikBox
Upgraded Voice Control
Vehicle: Merz 2002 S500 W220.175 -owner since Oct.2008
Location: The Great White North - Canada
Posts: 26
Hi Skylaw,
I have gone ahead and removed the black sealant to investigate what the status of my upper seal condition is. The previous video where I test for a leak, seemed to indicate that there was major leaking around the brass valve. i was surprised to find that the leaking actually comes from the area where the steel (silver colour) ring doesn't meet around the sides of the steel cap. In reading the technical spec from mercedes, and from my initial investigation of removing the black sealant, I am convinced that the black sealant has the purpose of not allowing for air leaks - in other words, the black sealant was supposed to fix the faulty steel cap's apparent lack of a rubber ring, and a steel ring with a 1 cm "short" circumference.
I won't be doing the plummer job with solder, to avoid having to heat the areas, etc, and probably not getting good pressure sealing. But I have decided to simply remove the black sealant, clean the surfaces very well, removing the black paint from the strut and polishing the top of the steel cap, to then place a good mult-metal epoxy, capable of withstanding a good range of temperatures and pressures. (in this case, -40F to +350F or -40C to +176C, and up to 3500psi). Being a newbie, and knowing that a video is worth a million words, here are a few uploaded to youtube. I will be testing the application tomorrow morning, and will let you know how it goes!
hope they prove useful! (not edited, so some ffwding may be necessary at times)
wow Carlos, that was so nice of you to go through all that trouble with the demo videos. I prefer to use the kits though. I just received them in the mail today. They cost me $100 each. I will do mine as soon as i get that special tool. I wish someone posted a video showing how to replace the seal step by step and showing how that tool works.
Vehicle: Merz 2002 S500 W220.175 -owner since Oct.2008
Location: The Great White North - Canada
Posts: 26
pretty good alternative: removing and resealing existing cap
Hi Detcomm, well, I learned a lot from this forum to fix a problem which originally scared the heck out of me, and turned out to be quite simple, so it's the least I can do, and recording my actual work was pretty easy, and didn't add any difficulty.
I think this very cheap ($5) and potentially good alternative, may be of benefit to alot of benz owners out there since it is such a common problem, and the price of $500 at a shop is crazy for two new steel covers and new brass valves. As a DIY with the kits, one is still paying quite a bit, and buying a special tool that one will (hopefully) only use once on each front strut. I would also like to know whether the design of the kit components is 100% problem proof. At $5, I can re-apply the seals every year in a few hours, if leak tests indicate it is needed.
I have reviewed the first messages on this thread, and I in the end I find that I am applying the epoxy just like "kaydiesl" had suggested - with an important difference, that I remove the old black cracked sealant, and totallyl clean the surfaces of paint or left-over original black sealant PRIOR to sealing with epoxy-paste.
I just moved my car into the garage, since we are getting a big snowfall, and have safely refilled the front strut (after learning from this amazing forum, to be careful lowering the wheel until touching the driveway, not all the way down, and then turning the car on, noticing then that the strut filled with air and the car raised properly before removing the jack). It's been 8 hours since the epoxy was put on, and this brand is already at "working" capacity - so I tested for leaks with water and soap, and raising the car, and there are NO leaks from the metal cap sealed with epoxy - quite a contrast to my first leak test.
What I did find is that the brass valve has a very slow leak in the middle section, as originally found in my first tests, where there is a join.
I will prep another video tomorrow with the final tests, and also I plan to do some severe road testing, with speed bumps, with the sport setting on 2, and see how it holds up.
As mlfun says in an earlier message
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlfun
Epoxy is a hard material. If it fails, wouldn't there be a sudden loss
of pressure ? (not a good thing at highway speeds).
I think that the epoxy is as hard, but stronger, than the original sealant - especially if you get the "multi-steel" epoxy that bonds the brass, iron and steel found on top of the strut.
I am still amazed that Merz actually sealed the upper steel cap with that original flimsy sealant on an S500. Anyway, from my leak tests, just having the original steel cap with no sealant or epoxy, the front struts don't suddenly lose pressure when the car is on level road (as highways generally are) - its on the primary and secondary streets with potholes that the struts will leak most of the air, with the compressions and decompressions.
Anyway, I am interested to see the new brass valve that comes with the kit, since the original one has a very, very small leak in the middle joint section. Detcomm, can you or someone else post some pictures here of the new brass valves that are included in the repair kit? Thx. It would be a shame if the new brass valves have the same design (and potential leakage flaw), which seems to contribute to a slow leak. I am considering sealing the brass valves with epoxy as well. These slow valve leaks may be the reason why so many S500's eventually lose pressure over a matter of weeks in the garage.
thanks for the videos carlos, i see some hairline cracks around the black part of the struts i kinda spit in a bit to see if there was any obvious leaks lol i dont think i have any leaks since i dont see the car drop down in the morning but i wanted to check for any leaks anyways since i did see the little cracks. i'll check it tomorrow again with soapy water this time and raising it with the button on the dash.
my car did give me the "airmatic stop car too low" once about a month ago and it was all the way down so i took it to the dealership where i bought it (not a MB dealer but they did sell only MB and BMW so i think they know what they were doing lol) the mechanic told me he changed a few fuses and relays and it worked finen so im assuming my problem that time was the relay some people have replaced right? how can i check if they changed it to the Hella relay which everyone says it works best.
and once you find it (didn't do it myself yet, but it appears to be the first relay on the passenger side, fuse box in the engine.) it should have a Hella logo. i have searched for the original post with the hella pict, but can't find it. I had saved it on my pc, it for future reference so here goes - but not mine!
I'll add my thanks for all of your work in the videos, and will be very interested in how well your repair holds up over time.
The purpose of the mastic is not to "seal" - it is to dampen vibrations that may cause the brass valve to crack (especially where it passes through the seal). The earlier S-Classes did not have the mastic at all.
Regarding mj23cg69's question, the Airmatic relay will have a Siemens name if it is the older style, and Hella if it is new. If you have a Siemens relay, it could still have been replaced, but it would have been the same problematic kind as before.
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