[danielsand]

I've heard about the toaster owen reflow before, but I think it would not work without the flux. Now question is where to put the flux? On every soldered spot? That souunds like a job for someone that has WAY more patience than I do.

In the meantime,......electric space heater on the floor still works. I plug it in 20-30 minutes before take off, and the key turns every time. I ended up buying a Jag for my wife (so she doesn't drive mine!), and the Bruno is now officially the family car (we drive it only on weekends, if we go somewhere together). We like the big "Gay family car" (I named it that when I first saw the Horizon Blue color, but now I love it!). Gay=Bruno (Sacha Baron Cohen), and that's how our W220 got its name. Bad EIS, or Airmatic, we're keeping it.

 

[moonlite]

Same problem with my 2003 S430, having problem to unlock the door and start the car when it's cold. It happens with all 3 of my keys. Car battery is new, so battery is not a problem.

Once it's warm or car start once already, problem go away, until after I park the car for a while (especially in cold), the problem appear again.

EIS is being ordered for replacement, $260 labor and $520 for EIS part. Green key is refundable ($200).

I have access to WIS, it's quite simple job. I no longer have access to Star Diagnostic, needed to copy data from old EIS to new one, otherwise, I could have done the job myself.

I'm posting instruction here in case anyone want to give it a shot of seeing how EIS replace go like, should take you about an hour. Probably another hour or so to program the EIS. If shop quote you about 3 - 4 hours, they're honest on the job.

I had the same problem like yours; 3 keys not working in the cold weather and even now; it's getting hotter and my car's still not working. I have to jumb start verytime. (I had tried many fuse checking, exchanging, replacing etc. but still not working)
Took the car to dealer and I told them my EIS is bad and need to replace. SA said they have to follow the procedure. Diagnose first $130 and said my battery was bad but I just changed a months ago. SA stated; for now I need to replace battery $315 and the tech can go to the next step for diagnosing. I said OK; replaced battery and diagnose again. Tech found no electric draw from system and testing 2 times. Ruled out just battry was bad nothing else, not EIS.
Picked up car and parked in my garage, next day NO start, jumb start again with one day young battery.
Now, they said bad EIS $1600. I have to fight with them. I stated they over charge for this job because many people were pay much less than that. I had to take off from work drop off car serveral time, and no rental car for the time they order the EIS. I printed out your price and they finally came down 1000. It's too much for me to bring the car back with the bad EIS as I already told them needed to replace at the first time when I broght the car in, and not need to replace battery.

Finger crossed for all my 3 keys and no more EIS or conection problem.

 

[DVM]

Hi,
I have experienced a similar issue, Mine is definately to do with the Remote Key since it all started after accidentally washing it in my jeans.
After drying it with hairblower and replacing the batteries, all functions (open /close including Convenience Opening and Closing) were restored however the Key wouldnt turn to position 1 or 2.
Later I discovered that attempting to turn the Key whilst holding down any one of the remote buttons would turn the key and crank the car. I had to press and hold the key before inserting it and keep holding after cranking for a couple of seconds or else all electrical functions cease.(Radio, A/C, Flickers, Brake Lights almost everything electrical stops and Instrument Cluster comes awash with faults BAS, ESP but engine keeps running).
After reading ricebubbles pdf, I measured the voltage across my key coming by induction and it was 1.76V. The same test with one of the remote buttons held down (with batteries attached) gave 5.6V and the key turns. The fact that I can get communication with EIS at 5.6V means that your key should ably communicate with the EIS since you had much more (7.5V).
Also the unidentified key in the pdf ''fatrash’s W220 unknown year'' is the same as mine, a 1999 s500 W220

 

[winelight]

Starting problems with 03 SL500

I have the same…or similar problems starting my 2003 SL500 (R230) after the car has been sitting for 1-2 days – especially in cooler weather. Starting battery is good at 12.2V…and it turns over fast when it does start. Service battery is new...and the charging system takes the service battery up to 14.2V...so the charging system is also good. The starting problem first began when cold weather hit, but I can have the problem up to about 60 degrees F...or so. Sometimes activating a remote control function enables the car to start...and sometimes not. Also...the remote control functions sometimes work...and sometimes don't. The car has keyless start...which sometimes does not start the car all the time...even when the key will start the car. After the car starts and warms up, all remote functions and keyless start seem to work.

I have been able to start the car every time if I first remove the F33 – f3 7.5A fuse in the trunk (near the service battery). This appears seems to reset something...and then remote functions and starting works – but not necessarily multiple starts. There are more peculiarities I could share here. I suspect it’s the EIS (N73) at fault based on all I’m reading here…but I’m not 100% sure because (1) I have an R230 – and not the cars being discussed here, (2) I don’t know how or if remote control functions [e.g. – remote door lock] are related to the EIS, (3) The 7.5 amp fuse also goes to the SCM (N80). I doubt the SCM has anything to do with this…but I don’t know how the SCN “thinks”...and the relationship – if any – between the SCM and EIS.

Should I replace the EIS?

 

[winelight]

I have the same…or similar problems starting my 2003 SL500 (R230) after the car has been sitting for 1-2 days – especially in cooler weather. Starting battery is good at 12.2V…and it turns over fast when it does start. Service battery is new...and the charging system takes the service battery up to 14.2V...so the charging system is also good. The starting problem first began when cold weather hit, but I can have the problem up to about 60 degrees F...or so. Sometimes activating a remote control function enables the car to start...and sometimes not. Also...the remote control functions sometimes work...and sometimes don't. The car has keyless start...which sometimes does not start the car all the time...even when the key will start the car. After the car starts and warms up, all remote functions and keyless start seem to work.

I have been able to start the car every time if I first remove the F33 – f3 7.5A fuse in the trunk (near the service battery). This appears seems to reset something...and then remote functions and starting works – but not necessarily multiple starts. There are more peculiarities I could share here. I suspect it’s the EIS (N73) at fault based on all I’m reading here…but I’m not 100% sure because (1) I have an R230 – and not the cars being discussed here, (2) I don’t know how or if remote control functions [e.g. – remote door lock] are related to the EIS, (3) The 7.5 amp fuse also goes to the SCM (N80). I doubt the SCM has anything to do with this…but I don’t know how the SCN “thinks”...and the relationship – if any – between the SCM and EIS.

Should I replace the EIS?

I replaced the EIS...all problems solved!

 

[pinkster]

Bit of an older thread but I was doing a little surfing earlier and found this little video, which may explain the problem with the cold.
https://youtu.be/8JTbSrgwbWg

Dean

 

[ricebubbles]

Thanks for that Dean and well done to YouTube Poster John Kennedy https://youtu.be/8JTbSrgwbWg
for diagnosing the issue.

He even states that it was fixed by just replacing one of the Hc08 processor chips (4j74y).

I just wish I had known that when mine failed. It would have saved over $3,000!

Regards,
Brian

 

[pinkster]

Do you still have the old one Brian? It may come in handy for someone else if you had the full details of the chip available.
Doesn't look like a job for the a DIY beginner. Would need to be fairly good with the old solder iron for this one.

Dean

 

[ricebubbles]

Hi Dean,
I do have the old EIS but I think my attempts at diagnosing the problem caused a few more issues than just one faulty microprocessor chip. The surface mount chips are really difficult to solder even with a fine tipped soldering iron and I and the M-B agent did a heap more damage.

Funny thing is I used almost a full can of freezer on my failed EIS but it didn't respond like the one in the video.

I have added the link to John Kennedy's excellent diagnosis video to the Mercedes-Benz S-Class W220 Wiki Encyclopedia at WIS 80.57 Drive Authorization System - W220 Encyclopedia

It could save someone thousands of dollars.
Regards,
Brian

 

[pinkster]

I wasn't thinking of repair as much as getting the full details of the chip, number and size details etc.

 

[ricebubbles]

Dean,
You prompted me to go and dig out my stuffed EIS and inspect the microprocessors.
They are both 64 pin quad flat pack types made by Motorola with part numbers SC510108CFU.
It looks to me like they are EPROMs ie need to be electrically programmed but it is getting a bit beyond this old fashioned electronics engineer.
I have put the pictures of my microprocessors and their details on the Mercedes-Benz S-Class W220 Wiki Encyclopedia web site at WIS 80.57 Drive Authorization System - W220 Encyclopedia

Brian

 

[deucer]

Wow, now I am impressed by that video! Brian, how did John Kennedy establish that the fault was occurring specifically to that Microprocessor and the lack of heat was the defect?

deucer

 

[pinkster]

The first chip is a voltage regulator - SC510108CFU 4J74Y automotive chips , quality assurance !-in Integrated Circuits from Electronic Components & Supplies on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Dean

 

[ricebubbles]

Just a couple more thoughts.

Does anyone know the John Kennedy video author? It would be interesting to hear from him if he was able to change the faulty chip and if so what was required to get it going, apart from the delicate soldering needed.

From my limited experience with microprocessors it would not be just a matter of changing the chip. The replacement would need to have the stored programme copied over from the original one. I think this is called electronic programming of an EPROM but it is beyond my knowledge.

It also occurred to me that if the heat sensitive part was accurately diagnosed as in John K's video then a reasonable fix may be to araldite a resistor to the faulty component and wire it so that it received 12V whenever the EIS was turned on. Judging by the small amount of heat required to fix the problem, something like a half watt resistor should do. A 330 Ohm resistor would generate 0.44W with 12V applied and should heat the chip about as much as a warm finger. It would need some testing but could potentially fix the issue. A larger dissipation could easily be obtained if it needed more heat. When I had my EIS headache I remember reading that one enthusiast used to switch on a room heater inside the vehicle every morning for 30 minutes before needing the car and that this worked for months. He didn't say if it ever stopped working.

Anyway it is all academic to me until my brand new EIS starts acting up, hopefully never but if it is like the original in about another ten years time.

Of course it may not be the actual chip that is heat sensitive but could easily be one or more of the solder joints associated with it. I spent three months with my EIS on the work bench but couldn't see and cracks in the solder joints and the individual components didn't respond to heating or cooling as in the video. Eventually I tried resoldering all the joints in the EIS and that was when I gave up. Two adjacent tracks on one of the microprocessors were bridged and I damaged the board trying to recover from that. I have learnt since that it would have been better to heat the whole chip with a heat gun and remove it completely, clean up the contact areas and then resolder it in again.

Brian

 

[ricebubbles]

SC510108CFU 4J74Y

The first chip is a voltage regulator

Dean, the SC510108CFU 4J74Y are automotive chips requiring specialized customisation. They are 64 pin 8 bit microprocessors which are mini computers in their own right. Consequently they need programming to do their intended job, thus the need for specialized customisation.

It is interesting that they are available for $30 including postage from your link.

I am certain a competent electronics enthusiast could easily reprogramme them but it is beyond me.

Brian

 

[iSteve]

EIS Replacement Unit

I was Suffering Cold Start Problems, Under 10Degrees Celsius it would take 2 to 20 Mins to get the Key to turn.

I Bought a Replacement EIS on eBay wit the same part number from the US.as my Indie said the US has the Same Key Frequency as Australia

Originally only one EPROM was cloned and i had some errors
Side marker lights error, We don't have them in Australia.
and the Steering Wheel Comfort feature wasn't working.

The Dash also copied the odometer reading of the new unit, which was higher than mine. this we have to work on to bring it back to original.

My Indie Cloned the EPROM (Both of them) from my old Unit.
and now all is working. as before. and No Cold Start Problem.

 

[ricebubbles]

Hi iSteve,

You did very well compared to my $3,000 exercise.

Do you know how the Indie "cloned" the EPROMs?

Did he use an EPROM copier or did he use the STAR DAS?

Best of luck getting the odometer to read correctly. I bet that will be a challenge.

Brian

 

[iSteve]

He used a cloning tool saved the files and copied them over

There were 88 differences between the old and replacement unit

 

[ricebubbles]

Thanks iSteve,

Do you know any more detail about exactly how the cloning was done?

Were the microprocessors individually copied using a cloning tool, ie were they removed from the printed circuit boards and inserted into the cloning tool or were they copied in situ ie still mounted in the EIS?

Do you know any more about the cloning tool, eg where did it come from, how did it work?

Sorry to be a pain but I am really interested in this issue.

Brian

 

[iSteve]

A ICSP tool and laptop were used
Therefore the IC was programmed on the board.

Hex files were copied and transferred

Not sure of the model