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Old 12-28-2010, 02:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Advice re: E63 performance upgrades

My E63 will soon be coming off warranty and, rather than replace it, I've decided to keep it and play around with some mild performance mods.

I must say this car is exceptional in OEM form. But too much of a good thing is never enough... so onward with the mods!

Your ideas are appreciated. I'd like to keep things simple at first.
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Bolt-ons. Long tube headers, X-pipe, resonator delete, etc.. That's the best way to start, imho. Also take out the OEM charcoal filters (that's quick and easy )

ECU tunes won't give you a huge bang for your buck. But check with Gintani (Alex) in Van Nuys, CA. OE Tuning (Jeremy, formerly with PC) is there next door and making some modest gains with remapping. And he can match the proper tune with the correct bolt-ons. But again, with the NA motor, don't expect miracles.

The big money can be spent with Renntech, but Jeremy is doing equivalent work for less $$.

Also consider a Quaife LSD if you don't have the factory P030 package.

Kleemann, Renntech, Evosport, are the primary sources. But the problem is that the 6.2 liter isn't an easy (for the money) motor to mod and it's bolted to the 7 speed which kind of limits any real massive improvements even if they did exist.

Also we're running into the issue of the new FI motors coming on board. Support for the 6.2 will diminish down the line.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the ideas. I guess I should have been more clear about some things:

I definitely want to leave the engine naturally aspirated as N/A engines are more driver-friendly and reliable IMHO. Power-adders can do some magical things, but they're expensive, add more moving parts that will eventually break, suffer from heat soak after extended driving, and, due to the nature of the power delivery, are less driver-friendly.

Originally, I was thinking along the lines of a new CAI and ECU. But I am kind of thrown off by your comments about "not much bang for the buck" with these mods. In an N/A engine this size, and with the seemingly restrictive OEM air intake and filters, I assumed one could expect to see significant gains. But, obviously, that's not the case.

Sadly, I think your comments about "support for the 6.2L eventually diminishing" are spot on. It's a spectacular engine that was dropped from production LONG before its proper time.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Actually I was saying to work with intake and exhaust (LTH and X pipe, etc..) Not about adding any kind of FI. That's pretty impossible or at the very least, ridiculously expensive. But by adding bolt-ons first and then getting an ECU remap to optimize the bolt-ons, is all you can really do. I recommend Jeremy at OE Tuning as someone who's had some decent success with the ECU on these cars (and also Renntech and Kleemann, but they're much more expensive.) With an ECU tune, he can get you close to 35 more hp at the wheels. But the cost just doesn't quite equate in terms of more power. And a lot of that has to do with such a limited market with the 6.2 motor. There aren't a whole lot of these cars around. Tuners just don't want to invest that much. There has been success with the C63 but that's primarily because the 6.2 in the C Class is de-tuned from the factory to begin with and so it's just a question of unlocking it.

The basic issue is that you can't add a whole lot of power to a NA motor anyway. Displacement is displacement. The SC motor of the 55 is a much better candidate. And the upcoming 5.5TT motor will be a better candidate, too. Boost can do wonders.

I prefer the linear power band of NA motors, too. Plus a better and predictable throttle response. But CAFE regulations are forcing mfgs to reduce consumption in their fleet and Daimler is no exception. They've paid upwards of $300 million in fines over the years. So FI motors with DFI are one answer. btw, the SLS will be keeping the 6.2 as will the C63 (at least so far.)
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Old 01-01-2011, 06:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the clarification. We're in agreement regarding N/A versus FI.

And, yes, I understand MB's rationale behind the switch. I just happen to disagree with it. There are many ways to skin the CAFE cat. The mileage standards apply to a manufacturer's entire fleet. MB sells a relatively small number of high-performance vehicles contrasted against their total sales. MB should focus on improving fuel consumption on their mass-production base models, not their low-production, high-performance AMG vehicles.

And I respectfully disagree with your comments about MB "not being able to add a whole lot of power to a N/A engine." Case it point is Ferrari's latest edition of their marvelous V8. The Italians have managed to squeeze 570HP/398TQ from a "miniaturized" 4.5L power-plant in NA trim. Using those same power-to-displacement ratios more or less, one can only conclude that the engineers at AMG left a LOT of performance potential from their super-sized 6.2L engine on the design floor.

And more power per liter of displacement is only one part of the answer. Cutting weight is the other. MB vehicles are notoriously heavy. My '07 E63 weighs more than two-tons; the '11 E63 weighs virtually the same. So, in four years of development, MB engineers didn't find a way to shed a single pound.

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Old 01-01-2011, 03:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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fwiw, when I said there's not much you can do with the NA, I meant there's not much the tuners can do, not the manufacturer. The SLS uses the 6.2 and AMG has pulled 563 hp and 480 ft lb torque out of it. So, yes, you're correct, there is a lot of potential in the 6.2.

As far as the CAFE regulations, Thomas Weber announced that Daimler simply doesn't want to pay another dime in fines. Perhaps they'll go to the extremes to do so, but since it is over the entire fleet, we'll still have the 6.2 in certain models. AMG has also produced an E Cell electric SLS as a prototype. And of course Porsche now has its GT3 R Hybrid (even RUF has designed an electric 997.) So, things will be trending in that direction, too.

The AMG Black Series was their 'answer' to weight reduction. And it looks like we'll have a C63 BS coming soon (with the 6.2.)

While I agree with the weight issue, one has to understand that AMG's agenda is much different than Porsche or Ferrari, etc.. The idea was (and still is) to build a performance car around an existing Mercedes chassis. And the Mercedes agenda has always been heavier cars with safety and comfort features as paramount. It has never been about much else. The Black Series is an attempt at something lighter and 'sportier,' but they are still based on an existing MB chassis and ideology.

The SLS is a departure since it is the first car to be designed by AMG from the ground up. But it's still about luxury and comfort. The product managers at AMG once told me that "departing from the Mercedes ideal of comfort, safety, technology, while combined with performance would make the car not be part of the AMG/Mercedes DNA."

I agree with you that AMG could easily make a lightweight, high performance "Ferrari." But it's not what they are about and they won't do it. Although they did build a limited edition lightweight SLS GT3 as a consumer track car.

But in respect to weight as part of the CAFE issue, Mercedes does make the A and B Class light weight cars. That also helps keep the 6.2 around in respect to total fleet production.

BMW is doing the same thing (DFI and FI motors.) The M5 will have the new twin turbo motor. Not sure about the M3; so far it still is being produced with the NA V8. I think that's a tricky one since they have to be sure to differentiate between the 335i and the M3 enough to warrant people buying the M3 (ie, if they put a FI into the M3.)
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Regarding CAFE standards, the point I was making is that the fuel new fuel consumption requirements apply to the average of the entire fleet. Therefore MB could ignore the CAFE standards on their low-production, high-performance AMG models without penalty so long as MB can make it up with better average fuel consumption on their high-production base models.

Regarding reducing weight, MB, just like the rest of the auto manufacturing world, is going to have to start addressing the issue of excessive weight in their standard production vehicles to reach future CAFE requirements. Weight reduction is the next and most practical design theme that will go mainstream in auto production. Consequently, light-weight materials that are considered exotic today (e.g., carbon fiber) will become du jour.

In fact, the engineers at Boeing have come up with a new, lower-cost production method for carbon fiber and, through a joint venture with Lamborghini's Advanced Composite Research Center, will be introducing this new carbon fiber in Lambo's next generation superleggera (super light-weight) hyper-car called the "Sesto Elemento". The SE, even with a V10 powerplant and all-wheel drive, weighs an astoundingly low 2,195 lbs. Following is a link:

Ultra-lightweight Lamborghini super car - Cars - Crave - CNET Asia
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.2AMG View Post
Bolt-ons. Long tube headers, X-pipe, resonator delete, etc.. That's the best way to start, imho. Also take out the OEM charcoal filters (that's quick and easy )...
How do you take out the charcoal filters? Also, does this hurt the car in any way? I assume Mercedes put them in there for a reason.
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Open up the airboxes and you'll see two sets of filters. The long thin gray ones are charcoal. (under the right and left sides where it says AMG on them. It's also easier if you remove the front cover piece with the star logo, too.)

Be careful when you lift the air boxes up to remove the filters, there is a chance you might dislodge the y-pipe. There are two plastic clips that attach the bottom of the pipe to the back end of the intake manifold plenum.

It was put in the 6.2 motors (they aren't in the 5.5) in 2007 for US emissions. Apparently they aren't in the Euro cars. BMW M5 owners have been doing this for a while, too. It's nothing new and if you search various forums you'll get lots of threads on it.

Some people claim they get a CEL in combo with also using K&N filters. But not everybody does. The consensus is that it's really from other issues (see next paragraph.)

If you do get a CEL be sure that the air filter isn't pinched (tighten the airbox screws carefully.) Also that the MAF gasket is sealing. And check the y-pipe from the intake plenum (see above.)

Intake and exhaust mods help with these motors. imho, that's the first place to start.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I am looking to purchase the Xpipe. Anyone can provide me with an exact recommendation? I heard there is a magnaflow?

Thanks everyone
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