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Interesting Article for Bluetec Diesels & FYI for Others

11K views 31 replies 6 participants last post by  hangit 
#1 ·
#3 · (Edited)
Since we do not have diesel section- the topics should go to General .
That article was brought on forum before and I take as whining of guy who is not getting along with dealers.
Bottom line, I am not putting 20W-60 oil into my diesels, even I am frustrated with very limited oil choices we do have in USA.
Changing high-tech oils every 5000 miles means you run the engine on overdose of detergents and anti-acids all the time.
Why not just add some acid every 3000 ? ;)
Seems the guy is not even aware that BLuetecs do have oil coolers
I think there is 1 thing I would agree on with the article.
"Italian tuneups" do work !
 
#4 ·
Interesting indeed! Looks like the OP of the article has some experience with diesels. His recommendation of CJ-4 15W40 for OM642 has peaked my curiosity.
I do like his recommendation for the magnetic oil drain plug. Drainplugmagnets offer what looks to be a solid piece of engineering . I have some past experience of using Japan built ( made by Spoon company) unit that simply had magnet "unglue" from the bolt!
I do like his recommendation of pulling belly pans off during summer months to keep the motor cooler. I think I may pull the top cover off too.
 
#5 ·
I do believe that the writer of the article knows a thing or two about MB. This is from his website.

Tom worked for Mercedes-Benz for 25 years as a Technician, Instructor, and Service Manager. As the Service Manager for dealership’s in Houston and Sacramento, he received Mercedes-Benz “Service Manager of the Year” award 5 times. After opening his own Mercedes-Benz service center 23 years ago, Sacramento Magazine honored Stephens Service Center with “The Best of Sacramento”.

John
 
#6 ·
Hmm...I'd be interested to know his recommendations for E320 CDI engines, too. It seems that the higher the viscocity (to a point), the better for the Diesel engine. But the OM648 engine doesn't have to worry about things like DPF's and AdBlue and such.
 
#8 ·
No, I doubt very seriously "one angry old man" knows better. :) I'm sure the factory engineers know, and it looks like that was this "angry old man's" point, namely that the factory engineers *do* know better, but they're being muzzled by A.) their employer, and B.) the US Government. In this case, he's talking about maintenance of a car that could be pretty reliable, if the *proper* maintenance is done on it.

I consider this plausible because it wouldn't be the first time a car manufacturer made design choices and recommendations, for business reasons, that didn't serve the customer in the best reasonable way, "reasonable", in this case, meaning not causing problems down the road. Older folks will remember the "planned obselescence" policies of GM, Ford, and Chrysler back in the 1970's and 1980's. They will also remember the difference between the Ford Granada and its replacement, the Ford Fairmont. The former may not have been pretty, but it was very reliable, while the latter was a problem-child from birth due to Ford's sucky implementation of the then-new EPA regs. Advancing the Fairmont's timing after purchase fixed most of the problems. Granted, it came at the expense of a little more emissions, but the car would run much better. Why did Ford not do it right? Because it was cheaper to do it wrong and just retard the timing. Customer? They'll be buying another car in 3 years, so goodie for us (Ford)! GM and Chrysler did similar things. GM, Ford, and Chrysler knew their cars. But for business reasons, they made bad (for the customer) recommendations and design choices. I remember those days.

And that's the *other* reason Japanese cars became so popular. :)

Regarding Mercedes-Benz, remember that they used to tell people, "automatic transmissions are sealed for life, no maintenance required." They had to backpedal on that one due to complaints, remember? This article looks in much the same vein. The car could run very well...with the Proper Maintenance.
 
#10 ·
Well.. I can talk Ford Truck as much as MB.
IMHO Ford is about 10 years behind in technology comparing to MB.
The features I have in 2008 MB, now I have in 2017 Ford Truck.
Still it suck big time that truck who is design to have rear axle load between 2500 and 8000 lb has solid springs, while MB has adjustable suspension on wagons for 40 or 50 years.
I would also separate MB form MBUSA.
Having European roots, I monitor how those cars are used/maintained in Europe and first obvious thing is that Mobil1 could not "motivate" European market to buy their products.
In life usually you don't have "white" or "black" choices, but you have to oscillate with shades of gray.
Still I am not putting 20W-60 in my cars.
 
#12 ·
Lot of them are still using dino oils, while the best recommendations are for semi-synthetics.
They have whole list what they can use.
I am personally upset that I can't buy Shell Helix for my diesels in USA.
Seems to be excelent oil, coming from USA-based (Dutch owned) corporation, still not sold in USA.
 
#13 ·
Here is Mr. Stephen's reply as to his oil recommendation for my 06 E320 CDI.

In the winter, I would use 10W/40 Redline motorcycle oil. In the summer, 20w/60. Even the 2006, run very hot exhaust driven turbocharges. They run at 1300F. That's why you change the oil every 5000 miles & change the air filter every 20000 miles. Your engine is much better than the BlueTec, but it still needs the better oil. New diesel oil is junk. Here is a article from Ford. They will not approve the new diesel oils for their diesels. That is a bold move by any manufacture.
Tom
 

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#14 ·
Thanks. We've got the same engine (mine's a 2005 E320 CDI), so the recommendation is germane for my car as well. Appreciate your sharing the knowledge.

It's interesting that Stephen says to change the oil every 5,000 miles. I do exactly this with my (turbodiesel) pickup truck as well and have done so religiously since I bought it. This is despite the owner's manual saying 7,500 miles. I had started on 15W-40 dino Diesel oil (Shell Rotella) until about 60,000 miles. Then I learned about 5W-40 fully synthetic Diesel oil, which I've been using since (we do get below freezing in my area during winter). People have told me that the 6.0L Ford Powerstroke Diesels are so unreliable. Well, I do proper maintenance on mine, and it has served me with aplomb since 2003 when I bought it. I will assume the same is true of the M-B CDI turbodiesels or any other turbodiesel.

By the way, my oil change regimen is 5,000 miles on any of my S-Class Mercedes-Benzes as well. My Civic gets new oil/filter every 3,000 miles (full synthetic, of course), since it's a bit older. Guess I'm just old-school. Maybe it's even a waste; I dunno. But I do know that my vehicles run great, though, so apparently "old school" still works! Once again, my Dad was right. :)
 
#15 ·
I have been changing at 10k mile intervals, but I do change the filters at the 5k mile interval. I also own an F250 7.3l, since new, and have been using full synthetic 5w/40 diesel oil changing at 10k mile intervals.

This oil issue has as many opinions, some based on fact. I will be sending some samples for analysis at next change.

John :confused:
 
#16 · (Edited)
The reason for lower weight oils is to get the oil to every wear component as quickly as possible on startup. This is most critical with the turbo chargers. Modern full synthetic motor oils are much more durable and lubricitous than dino oils.

The testament to the quality of engineering on both the engines and oil is in cars like my 2005 E320 CDI with 423,000 miles. The engine is just as strong as new, and the engine hasn't ever been cracked open. Not so much as the cam cover has come off. Original engine, original turbo, original lifters, original timing chain.

I will be opening up the engine to take a look at timing chain stretch, sprocket and cam lobe wear, etc before fall, so stay tuned if anyone is interested about that. I'll be doing a write-up here. It will be a good look at how well synthetic oil protects an engine.
 
#17 ·
So, maybe the 5W-40 synthetic is a good all-around option for our cars, just as it is for Hangit's and my trucks.

I do know that Mobil-1 0W-40 and 5W-40 are also recommended for the S600 twin turbos; I use 0W-40 in my 600 since it is the European Formula and readily available.

Hangit and I are going to try an experiment with this Red Line oil, submit it to the Blackstone Labs, and report back. Might be a few months before we get the results, but it should tell us if this Stephen fellow's logic bears out in actual practice. Nothing like science. He's going to try out the 20W60, and I will be trying the 20W50.
 
#21 ·
Looks like Marc is running Amsoil 5W40 European formula EFM which is MB-229.5 spec in his OM642 motor. He has 2008 R320 and those have DPF.
 
#22 ·
Thanks, Kajtek. Just had a read of it, and it's rather interesting. If I'm reading this right, it appears that 5W-40 oil, with the proper additives and changed every, say, 10,000 KM, should be fine, regardless of brand, though Amsoil 5W-40 seems to be the better performer. I did note that Mobil-1 0W-30 posted higher iron levels than the other tested oils. Not sure if that's because of Mobil-1's formulation, or the 0W-30 viscosity. I suspect it's a combination of the two because the Mercedes-Benz brand oil is similar, 5W-30.
 
#23 ·
M1 always generate higher iron on all weights and that is why I avoid it whenever I can.
Funny when I was sending samples to the lab, the lab recommended oil change due the higher iron, but then come with "if you don't mind higher iron, just drive it another 3000 miles"
Bottom line- the solid criteria how good oil should act don't exist.
 
#24 ·
Here's my oil analysis. The engine had a total mileage of 102k miles, and this sample of Mobil 1 European formula 0w-40 had 7k miles on it. I have changed to the Redline motorcycle full synthetic 20w-60 as recommended by Mr. Stephens. I will send another sample at 5k miles on the new oil and post that analysis also. My fuel mileage has decreased about 6% with the new oil.

FWIW, the Mobil 1 appears to have been doing a good job.

John
 

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#29 ·
Blackstone Lab's average on my cdi is 50. They flagged it when it "spiked" to 107, which I concluded was because of me using Mobil 1 esp oil. Since I switched to Mobil 1 European Blend, the iron level came down to 83 on my last oil analysis.
Also with using the esp oil, my copper spiked to 6, which the average is 3. My last oil analysis it was at 4.
Mike T.
 
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