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SBC and NHTSA : UPDATE M-B Warranty has been extended

99K views 166 replies 59 participants last post by  Noodles 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Admin Edit:
M-B warranty for this issue has been extended as of August 17, 2018. For more complete information and directions on this warranty, please follow the links provided at the bottom of this Edit. Excerpts from a PDF version of the official letter are as follows.


IMPORTANT EXTENDED WARRANTY INFORMATION UPDATE
The warranty on the SBC Hydraulic Unit for MY 2003-2006 Model 211, MY 2006 Model 219, and Model Year 2003-2012 Model 230/231 was extended from the original 4 years/50,000 miles to 25 years with no mileage limitation. The SBC Hydraulic Unit extended warranty applies to all conditions that justify the replacement of the SBC Hydraulic Unit and specific listed components under the standard New Vehicle Limited Warranty terms and conditions. Please note that the warranty extension now includes: Model Year 2004-2012 Model 240, and Model Year 2005-2009 Model 199 vehicles.

The following vehicle model and model years are covered:
Model : Model Years
E-Class : 2003-2006
CLS-Class : 2006
SL-Class : 2003-2012
Maybach : 2004-2012
SLR-Class : 2005-2009

Discussion of the warranty begins at Post 109 (link provided).
A PDF attachment of the warranty letter is at Post 134 (link provided).

Admin Edit end. Original Post begins below.


I have been in contact with the NHTSA regarding the SBC service threshold issue. They advised me to have as many owners of vehicles with these units to contact them via www.safercar.gov and file a complaint. This is the only way the NHTSA will take any action.

This is a safety issue since the brakes go into backup mode with no prior warning. At the very least MB should issue a recall to interrogate the units with STAR DAS.

Thanks for your help.

John

Below is what I submitted to the NHTSA website. It will ask for date of incident, but just use the date you file.

This vehicle is equipped with Sensotronic Brake Control that has a service threshold. When this threshold is reached the brake system defaults to non power assisted hydraulic mode to the front wheels only. This occurs without any prior warning and results in increased stopping distance. I have sent a copy of the Mercedes service bulletin S142.46-P-0012A which addresses this issue. Mercedes stopped installing this system in 2006. At the very least, Mercedes should issue a mandatory recall to interrogate these vehicles with STAR DAS to determine how close to the service threshold the SBC unit is and replace them at the dealer's expense. This is a major safety issue that needs to be addressed.
 
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#2 ·
I imagine more and more owners will be experiencing this as the vehicles get older.
Brake activation count is just one of the failure modes of this system, in my case it was a failure of the pump which resulted in virtually no braking power and no warning.
MB replaced under the extended warranty and I did file a NHTSA complaint.
Judging from the fuel vapor case, NHTSA will need to see more than 2000 complaints to lift a finger.
 
#8 ·
I would be watching it just for statistics.
As far as I know Roadking is the only one who reported actual SBC failure, while lot of others simply did not like maintenance bill when the pump become due for replacement.
Different stories, different resources.
 
#11 ·
The counter is like brake pad sensor. It tells you to replace the part before it might fail.
Good idea IMHO, but making $3000 part that require replacement every few years is not making sense economically.
Now that the priced dropped to $1000 it might become different story.
 
#14 ·
In the hundreds of SBC brake flushes I have performed I have yet to perform a software update. ITS not part of the brake fluid service.

The only time I perf a update is when SDS tells me to due to a fault code guided test.

good luck with this. MB extended the warranty on the pumps for 10yrs from date of initial in service date. I agree the new ABS units are stupid expensive compared to the SBC units.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Current counter value can be read but no one can say what is actual trigger limit because it's not fixed. Like said lot of info stored and system estimates counter trigger level according that. Reported everything between 150k-500k cycles.

I think these SBC fault issues will increase in future because many of current cars has been treated against service program (longer fluid change intervals, regular bleeders where emergency circuit is not properly bled etc.). And system design is stupid, emergency brake force should be much better because like said it can come out of blue. And it's also stupid that you cannot replace the system by conventional servobarkes (well not with reasonable efforts, I remember some did it...)

I think the spare part thing will improved, now that Bosch sells those new/refurb (not sure) units, end they start deliver them all around. What I've read these units are not yet available in US and not even in UK. Price of unit is still high but much less than MB.
 
#20 ·
our family car has 196K miles (not gentle miles) and we have had absolutely zero SBC brake related issues since new. I feel this system is far less troublesome than what everyone says. I also do a lot of work with a MBZ independent shop and their techs say the same thing about W211s w/SBC. Heck if was good enough for the handbuilt SLR McLaren that says something..
 
#23 ·
I think any car with a failed power brake booster will have substandard braking. I once was driving my Suburban when I heard a whoosh when I stepped on the brakes. I was far from home and it finally quit about 30 miles from the house. I made it home using both feet to depress the pedal and stop the car.
 
#105 · (Edited)
Ford Van with 7.3L Diesel, when you loose the vacuum pump WITHOUT WARNING, you better hope you aren't doing 60mph, even at 25mph it a bear to stop, happened to me one early Sunday morning, I couldn't stop for a stop sign, blew right through. There is NO warning and there is no accumulator to hold a vacuum for emergencies. The vacuum pump is driven as a serpentine accessory. So if the belt goes so does your brakes unlike a gas engine, the culprit was an idler pulley that fell apart, damaged the fan blades on the way out, but all was covered under warranty as "Consequential Damage" which had there not been a mechanic standing there listening to me buying parts it would have cost me. That diesel engine had an extended warranty, exceeding the gas engine warranty.
 
#28 ·
can some of you guys list how many miles it was when your sbc pump failed? everyone seems to list the problem but no mileage listed.

Cheers.
 
#37 ·
Just thought I would post a comment on the latest SBC subject.
This was my experience. 2003 E500 Sport 147000 miles. My first warning of a brake problem was a White BRAKE visit workshop on the instrument cluster. This went on for a few months. I would just clear it by pushing the menu button on the steering wheel. Then in RED I got the message braking longer distance and something else. This message could not be cleared by the menu button or even disconnecting the battery.
This went on for a month or so. Was I getting nervous, well sure but kept plugging along. I don't venture to far from home anyway.
Then one day entering on the interstate and getting up to speed at normally (76mph) a RED stop sign came up on the cluster the transmission shifted down to second gear and bells and whistles were blaring. Slowed down pushing very hard on pedal(was told only the front brakes are stopping your car at this point) to about 30mph and nursed it back home two miles.
Took the car to Fletcher Jones Motor Cars in Temecula, CA (Ramon Ventura) to explain my dilemma, and low and behold they first hit me with a $157.00 diagnostic estimate. What choice did I have, I am the dealers mercy. They tested and got the error code C249F, whatever that means they told me it needed a new SBC. SBC service time exceeded. The estimate for repair was $1571.00 parts and $690.00 labor. God is good, they did not make me pay the diagnostic charge. ;+}
I looked around to see if I could get the price cheaper. I found the least expensive one on Mercedes Parts they had the pump for $859.20 plus a $153.00 core charge until I returned mine and shipping here and back about $70.00 no tax. I mentioned this to Ramon my service writer at the dealer and the words you always like to hear (we do not like losing a deal to anyone). They came down on price to $875.00 for the pump. Well that was a no brainer, don't have to pay freight. Did have to pay tax put basically a wash. I also had to change the ground wire $8.00 plus the latest and greatest suction hose with dampers $100.00. I also received 15% off their service as well. I guess the moral of the story is don't get discouraged by the initial quote just hang in there until you get something that is palatable. I can feel a slight difference when I depress the brake pedal, just HAPPY it works now.
I at that same time got the fuel tank replaced for it leaking when full.
I have complained on both issues
with the NHTSA complaint page. Maybe with enough complaints they will extend the replacement time for the SBC from 10 years to 15, and I can get reimbursed. :+O
I know this is a long story but maybe it will help other owners know what to expect from there Benz.
 
#38 ·
Good for you local stealer agree to adjust the prices.
Don't think those guys in Bay Area would go for it.
Per my understanding you did not have SBC failure, just the counter come to its limit?
Can you estimate how many brake pushes you had from time of white notification to red warning and limp mode?
 
#39 ·
Kajtek1
I don't know what a failed SBC is supposed to feel like. It sure was not working for me. I don't think I will even guess how many brake pushes I had since the White warning first appeared. The SBC pump will cycle anytime the pressure is low as soon as you wake up the system. 2005 with 147000 miles I would assume is lots and lots of cycles. Are you suggesting I was duped? I am not feeling that at all.
 
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