We have had a 2005 E-320 for about 4 years now. It came with the standard DVD navigation system. For the first few years, it worked wonderfully - no problems - none whatsoever. About 6 months ago the nav system started to make mistakes - a left when it should have been a right, no warning to turn off on freeway exits, turning out of a parking lot, it cannot find the street even though you are in the middle of it, etc. The unit seems to have gotten senile.
OK ... I bring the car to my local Mercedes dealership and tell them the problem and the look it over for a day. They can't retrieve any error codes, so there is no problem in their minds. I am not imagining the ever increasing mistakes so I call MBUSA and complain - they connect me with tech service people who agree it is wierd problem, and they will "push" the dealer to look further. First they give me a 2008 update disk to try - no difference. I then bring it in for a second try - they have it for 5 days. The dealership says that the routes that I have taken and reported as incorrect, do not route them incorrectly. Frankly, I believe them, the problem is erratic and mostly irreproducable.
The very nature of the problem is that the Nav unit is toally unreliable, and therefore useless. My wife is disabled and I do not want her driving around with a disability and the ability to get sent in the middle of nowhere at a moments notice. The dealership confides in me that they do not get paid by MBUSA for warranty work, unless they find a bona-fide reproducable problem. So we are all stuck between rocks and a hard place. I know it is erratic and undependable - and have no reason to keep bringing it back other than to get it fixed. Of course MBUSA won't take my word for it, so nothing ever happens.
I'm going to give them one more shot at it (I found another route that it cannot navigate to - a really basic mistake). If they cannot reproduce the problem and/or replace the unit, I will pay them cash to do it anyway. I am at wits end.
Has anyone heard about these problems in any other vehicle? How have they been resolved? Any ideas as how I might proceed. I am losing my patience with these people. Thanks.
You do not mention that the GPS antenna is fine and Comand shows fix to a sufficient number of satellites (at the status display). I assume this is the case (even if the GPS antenna failure is quite common).
My guess would be the DVD drive, if the Map DVD itself is still clean and in good condition. If the drive cannot read all the info it would need for the route options, the behaviour would be weird.
Unless the dealer is attempting to reproduce the error by starting from the exact same geographic point you were at when the error first occurred, I'm not surprised that they can't find anything wrong.
Thanks. They have given me a new (2008) navigation DVD, tested the antenna, etc. They have gone to only one place where I have found a consistent problem, and they flat out tell me that they don't have the problem.
I guess the whole thing is that it by nature is intermittent. I've called MBUSA and told them the same thing - and basically told them that there was no reason for me to lie about the problem as its creating lots of work for me to keep bringing the car in to the dealer.
But MBUSA's hard line is that until the dealer sees a definite and reproducible problem, the dealer won't even get paid for the warranty work. So, you see I'm between a rock and a hard place with them - as is the dealer.
If they don't fix it this next go around, I will pay cash and tell them to just replace the unit. Its not what I want to do, but then again, they give me no choice. It might make it easier to me to swallow that big an expenditure if I could at least upgrade it to a 2006, 7, or 2008 nav - one that would have TTS (text to speech) and speak street names.
This whole thing is driving me crazy. I don't trust the nav and therefore won't take the car anywhere difficult without a portable Garmin to put on the dash. Pretty pathetic for a Mercedes! This is the family car - I drive a 2005 Porsche Carrera with a nav system that is almost identical - the only difference seems to be the PCM (Porsche) interface vs the Command (MB) interface. The Porsche works fine.
Is there any way around all of this - and just get the car fixed?
I am not sure it is the same problem, but from what I researched the MB navigation system is having a backup that in the lack of satellite signal is using a compass or gyroscope (that the part I couldn't get firm info) for estimating the car route.
That helps in few turn in underground garage, but it is having big margin for errors.
Living in the mountains, we have one of our favorite road that on 3 miles is having about 50 turns and good tree cover. Whenever we drive there, the Mercedes GPS is showing our position in the middle of the lake near by.
The same is with forcing the display to show your positron on mapped street even when signal shows it a bit off. Very often my position is shown on the parallel street and when the parallel street end, the GPS jumps one block.
So when I really have to have good directions -having build in system I am taking my laptop with $29 Delorme antenna. In Delorme when there is no signal it is showing no signal without giving me electronic BS.
So next time you have a problem -observe very small icon in the corner indicating no signal. Took me some time to notice that.
It seems we live in the same area - sort of. I check my satellite numbers and I usually have 6-8 even when there is a problem.
I just came across an address in Berkeley that the Mercedes nav will not go to - no matter what I do. Its one of these take a right instead of left deals that takes me 3-4 blocks away from the real address. I tried driving all around to get it to re-route me and got nowhere with it. It definitely thinks that this address is in a different place than it really is. Now this is an old, established Berkeley neighborhood, with very few trees.
When I got home (luckily I had a Mapquest map to get me out of there) I tried running it again. You don't have to drive - just tell the thing to go to destination, then list the route. Well, it consistently lists a route that willl not take me to where I need to go.
I checked it against my Porsche (2005), and its nav system gives me correct directions. I also checked a Garmin portable, which takes a slightly different route, but still gets you there.
So my conclusion has to be that the "errors" are generated when the nav first calculates the routes. Now the Porsche has 2005 maps, the Garmin has 2007 maps and the Mercedes 2008 maps. So it can't be faulty map data. The Mercedes must be processing the data incorrectly. The blocks are numbered in this area of Berkeley, so its pretty easy to assume that the Mercedes map knows which block is which. Mapquest and Google maps both give the proper directions.
Its like I said, I'd tell MBUSA to shove it if I could upgrade to a 2006 or 2007 (that speaks street names) on my dime.
The bottom line is that all of these cars that last more than 2 or 3 years have electronics in them that are severely outdated long before the car is ready to be turned in for a new one. Mercedes only has implemented FM Traffic on their 2009 models. This technology has been selling in portable units for over 2 years. I believe Mercedes also just implemented WAAS capability in 2009. WAAS is a series of ground based signals that give you a more accurate "fix" - and has been sold on even the most basic portable models since 2006.
I guess I'm rambling, but the bottom line is that I really wish there was a way to force MBUSA to fix this damn thing. The car is still under warranty and it doesn't work correctly. What is their problem?
It seems we live in the same area - sort of. I check my satellite numbers and I usually have 6-8 even when there is a problem.
I just came across an address in Berkeley that the Mercedes nav will not go to - no matter what I do. Its one of these take a right instead of left deals that takes me 3-4 blocks away from the real address. I tried driving all around to get it to re-route me and got nowhere with it. It definitely thinks that this address is in a different place than it really is. Now this is an old, established Berkeley neighborhood, with very few trees.
When I got home (luckily I had a Mapquest map to get me out of there) I tried running it again. You don't have to drive - just tell the thing to go to destination, then list the route. Well, it consistently lists a route that willl not take me to where I need to go.
I checked it against my Porsche (2005), and its nav system gives me correct directions. I also checked a Garmin portable, which takes a slightly different route, but still gets you there.
So my conclusion has to be that the "errors" are generated when the nav first calculates the routes. Now the Porsche has 2005 maps, the Garmin has 2007 maps and the Mercedes 2008 maps. So it can't be faulty map data. The Mercedes must be processing the data incorrectly. The blocks are numbered in this area of Berkeley, so its pretty easy to assume that the Mercedes map knows which block is which. Mapquest and Google maps both give the proper directions.
Its like I said, I'd tell MBUSA to shove it if I could upgrade to a 2006 or 2007 (that speaks street names) on my dime.
The bottom line is that all of these cars that last more than 2 or 3 years have electronics in them that are severely outdated long before the car is ready to be turned in for a new one. Mercedes only has implemented FM Traffic on their 2009 models. This technology has been selling in portable units for over 2 years. I believe Mercedes also just implemented WAAS capability in 2009. WAAS is a series of ground based signals that give you a more accurate "fix" - and has been sold on even the most basic portable models since 2006.
I guess I'm rambling, but the bottom line is that I really wish there was a way to force MBUSA to fix this damn thing. The car is still under warranty and it doesn't work correctly. What is their problem?
Sorry but this post had a few flaws. The simple one is that MB has had TMC for years, I'm not sure how many more than two but definitely more than 4 years. That does not cover the US where this data came available later but even there the old Comand should be perfectly TMC (or the US equivalent) capable, at least 2007 MY W221 cars do it. But on a W211 you have to have the Navi unit and the Comand updated and in addition you have to have a very new map DVD.
The other complaint you have about route calculation is not at all related to the navigation device accuracy but the map database. W211 is well known to have limited street coverage in the US, small roads not included but I do not know if that holds for small roads in city areas. Anyway if the device does not calculate the route to your destination the way you would see best, the Comand HW is not faulty. If it does not calculate the "right" route to start with, it would not recalculate a better route if you follow the planned route. A "wrong" route is eithe caused by the fact that the device wants you to drive bigger roads as far as possible and in some cases it leads to odd route selections, or the map data is inaccurate and does not have the right data to allow the optimum route. Here you could also try selecting shortest route. I believe there have been map discs where even the route calculation algorithm had flaws but if you have the latest navi DVD, this should not be the case (I would not bother thinking about any other issues before being sure that the latest DVD is in use, you would have to pay for it though).
Map database shortages are absolutely repeatable, but only on exactly the same route, including the starting point.
I thought the navi lost the correct position (big time) while driving, now I'm confused if it is "just" that it gives directions incorrectly.
Intermittent problems anyway are a bit of a nightmare for a workshop, we have to understand that it may be difficult to find a fix. If I would start buying parts, I would in any case start from the GPS antenna as those are prone to fail more likely than the navigation unit. If you say it shows 8 satellites when it loses the correct position, then it does not sound like the antenna. But if you say it keeps you driving to a wrong direction when it has fix to 8 satellites, this is a completely different issue.
Sorry for a confusing, long post but I'd suggest you start over and describe your problems in detail again to allow us to figure out if it is at all about the navi processor or if it is "just" the map data base and related stuff.
It seems we live in the same area - sort of. I check my satellite numbers and I usually have 6-8 even when there is a problem.
I just came across an address in Berkeley that the Mercedes nav will not go to - ?
In this case I might have another answer. To my experience San Francisco Bay is having satellite signals scrambled quite often. I blame national security for that. Several times my GPS will never lock in. Couple years ago I rented a luxury car at Hertz at SF Airport. They have their own GPS system attached to dashboard. Driving 35 miles home the GPS never locked. It did lock in few seconds on restart in Contra Costa.
I have some problems with GPS signals around Army Bases in SO CA as well, what is understandable.
Than new programs not necessary have to be better. I am using recently Street Atlas 2008 and hate it comparing to SA 2005. It might have more accurate data base but even setting to "fastest route" it is trying to zigzag me thru residential streets instead of making straight drive on the highway and than one turn into next highway.
Sorry but this post had a few flaws. The simple one is that MB has had TMC for years, I'm not sure how many more than two but definitely more than 4 years. That does not cover the US where this data came available later but even there the old Comand should be perfectly TMC (or the US equivalent) capable, at least 2007 MY W221 cars do it. But on a W211 you have to have the Navi unit and the Comand updated and in addition you have to have a very new map DVD.
The other complaint you have about route calculation is not at all related to the navigation device accuracy but the map database. W211 is well known to have limited street coverage in the US, small roads not included but I do not know if that holds for small roads in city areas. Anyway if the device does not calculate the route to your destination the way you would see best, the Comand HW is not faulty. If it does not calculate the "right" route to start with, it would not recalculate a better route if you follow the planned route. A "wrong" route is eithe caused by the fact that the device wants you to drive bigger roads as far as possible and in some cases it leads to odd route selections, or the map data is inaccurate and does not have the right data to allow the optimum route. Here you could also try selecting shortest route. I believe there have been map discs where even the route calculation algorithm had flaws but if you have the latest navi DVD, this should not be the case (I would not bother thinking about any other issues before being sure that the latest DVD is in use, you would have to pay for it though).
Map database shortages are absolutely repeatable, but only on exactly the same route, including the starting point.
I thought the navi lost the correct position (big time) while driving, now I'm confused if it is "just" that it gives directions incorrectly.
Well, As far as I have been told by the dealerships in the US - TMC is not available on any E series, except the 2009 - which has a totally different interface - and is not even called "command". Porsche will not do TMC either until 2009 as well in the US.
Also, the 2005 E320 nav - as originally installed is amazingly accurate in the San Francisco Bay area (both in congested and rural areas). We never had a problem for the first three years. Within the last year the unit became senile for lack of a better word and started making mistakes quite often. Upgrading to the latest 2008 MBUSA nav disk changed a few menus and did nothing to fix the problem.
This problem is more political than technical. The dealership is hesitant to do any work that can't be substantiated by fault codes as they have told me that MBUSA will not pay them unless the find a verifiable problem. So you can see they have little incentive to fix the damn thing. So now - it really has become a "take a left, when you really needed to take a right" kind of thing and it never did this in the 3 years prior.
I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. My wife is somewhat disabled with a spinal condition and drives very carefully and to spend all the effort she can focusing on negotiating traffic rather than determining routes. I have driven this car enough and seen it make horrific mistakes to not feel that she is safe driving it. Putting a portable (Garmin) unit on the dashboard is just one bit of clutter and technology to negotiate and make it harder for her to drive.
Short of buying her a new 2009 E350, I am not sure what to do. I am less concerned with the dealer fulfilling warranty obligations (and wasting my time) as I am concerned with putting a proper Nav system in that car. If anyone has any ideas - I would really appreciate it.
I believe the antenna is fine and it carries 7-8 satellites at any one time. What I think is happening is that the processor of the nav unit is incorrectly processing the data from the start. Of course it is intermittent - probably a failing component, but not lethal enough to crash and throw out a fault code.
I'd have the dealership replace items one at a time at my expense if I knew where to start. Is the processor of the Nav data in the trunk unit - or is it in the command unit? Yes, this will cost thousands of my dollars that Mercedes should pay for - but the reality is that they are too bulky and stupid an organiztion to fix this one. I'd even go to a built-in aftermarket solution if I knew of one that can be plugged into the command and be ready to go.
Now I brought in the car to the dealerhsip today and told them of the recent problem where the navigation wants to go 3 or four blocks in the wrong direction (of the right street) to get to destination. The technician immediately called it a map error. Now a 2005 Porsche system (with 2005 maps) will get me there just fine - as will a 2007 Garmin portable - as well as google maps and Mapquest. The fact is that they all use MapQuest data in their maps - only the Mercedes has the problem. Logically it can't therefore be a map error, but a way in which the car interprets the data.
So you see what I am up against. It should be called "dumb and dumber". Why they won't just start experimenting by replacing parts is beyond me. So, if I have to pay for it ... then thats what will have to be done. Thanks
Now I brought in the car to the dealerhsip today and told them of the recent problem where the navigation wants to go 3 or four blocks in the wrong direction (of the right street) to get to destination. The technician immediately called it a map error. Now a 2005 Porsche system (with 2005 maps) will get me there just fine - as will a 2007 Garmin portable - as well as google maps and Mapquest. The fact is that they all use MapQuest data in their maps - only the Mercedes has the problem. Logically it can't therefore be a map error, but a way in which the car interprets the data.
It could well be that there is no "TMC" in the US for this E-class even if it had been years in Europe.
The map database is not the same on all devices. There are different companies that provide this data and there are significant differences. The database may be different even if both devices were using the same map data provider.
The fact that you MB navi asks you to drive a bit towards the wrong direction of a street is likely from the fact that it does not have individual house numbers but just a range of house numbers. Some navi processors try to guess the correct position for an individual house number from the known points for two different house number ranges, I would not be surprised if some stored exact house number info too. My guess is that this is not a fault in your device but an issue with limited map data.
But if your device was previously working fine and now gives randomly right turns when left turn would be obvious, it should not be a map database issue (even if you have changed your DVD to a more recent one).
On a W211 the navi processor and map DVD drive is at the trunk. I cannot think of anything else than a poor (almost failing) DVD drive causing issues like you describe (even there pretty unlikely).
The navi processor is expensive but less expensive than a head unit with integrated navi processor. If you want to try new parts, try a new navi processor first and perhaps a new GPS antenna next. Would be nice if you could borrow the navi processor from another car to try first.
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