Hi All! Introduction from an over-the-top gearhead . . .
Hi everyone.
I'm a long time BMW/Porsche gearhead, I've owned and worked on a lot of them over the past 25 years. I am used to doing ALL the work on my cars. This includes some crazy things, like converting my 535 from an automatic to a stick shift when the automatic crapped out, rebuilding porsche engines, painting and welding, etc.
My questions:
1. Does anyone do serious DIY on MBs? I notice that there seem to be a few here that are quite knowledgeable.
2. Are there any repair manuals available for the W211? For ex., for BMW and Porsche, Bentley makes some great manuals. I see they make something for the W123 and 124, but nothing for the 210 or 211. Is there any way to get repair or tech info?
3. Is there a reasonably priced diagnostic/code reading tool available?
I am thinking it is time for me to get into the "modern era" and learn how to dig into these post-OBD cars. Am I alone?
I'm afraid you are a bit alone, W211 owners do not do a lot of welding on their own, neither by someone else (accidents excluded).
You should get workshop instructions from MBUSA. Cheap diagnostics tools are available, and then there is one that works (but is pretty expensive, not easy to get either, that would be the Star Diagnosis System).
Seriously, there are members doing serious work on their cars although the average may be less of DIY when the modern electronics introduce some challenges.
I maintain my cars so that I don't have to get dirty on a regular basis if you know what I mean.
These cars when properly cared for are rather boring from a wrenching standpoint...in a good way!
That's also why I only own diesels, the hassles of maintaining a gasser along with 40% higher fuel consumption just isn't worth it.
As for the diagnostics, sorry to say but there are no cheap alternatives. On a side note my dealer has been great in offering scans if I ever need them. I do have them service my car and they have been great at meeting all my expectations. Also with the system updates you would be taking it in anyway, so why bother.
A Mercedes repair manual is great to have, perfect for the small projects or basic repairs that fall outside the scope of routine servicing.
DB
Last edited by drivbiwire : 08-21-2008 at 08:45 PM.
I'm seeing that the Star Diagnotic tool is on eBay, looks like around $1200 or so and you hook it up to your lap top? Sound right?
I've been doing some searches, it does look like a lot of the tasks are being done DIY. I'm thinking of replacing the rear brake pads on my 05 E500, for example, and I see it's been done, with some great info posted here! (Very interesting, dealing with the SBC system, and the workarounds for getting it done).
I'm really thinking about "going deep" with my E500, i.e., keeping it for 15 years. To do that, I have to be committed to learning how to fix it. I don't mind buying special tools if they aren't too far out there, I'd spend $1200 for a diagnostic tool if I really needed it.
The cars are still pretty new, most are under warranty, so I understand there probably isn't a ton of DIY info out there. But it does seem like it is happening.
I remember when the first OBDI cars came out, DIY was a little slow to develop (on the BMW scene), but it didn't take long for inexpensive diagnostic tools, code readers and resetters, etc. to develop.
There are a lot of BMW self-wrenchers out there, so there is a huge, rapidly developing internet data base for DIYers. I don't think MBs will ever have that number of DIY'ers, but hopefully it does develop a good amount. I am really fascinated by MB's technology.
Are there any repair manuals available for the W211? For ex., for BMW and Porsche, Bentley makes some great manuals.
Hah, Bentleys are crap compared to what you can get for your Mercedes!
At http://www.startekinfo.com you can subscribe for free to the entire USA-model Mercedes parts system (EPC). $12/year to get rest-of-world cars, too.
In addition for various subscription fees ($18 for 24 hrs being the most reasonable) you can subscribe at the same website to the entire Mercedes service system (called WIS) which includes procedures, recalls, technical bulletins, everything. It's all electronic, and procedures are interlinked. Nice to have a pdf writer to aid in dowloading, but you can just print if you wish. Additionally, Mercedes compiles this same information onto DVDs for specific models that you can purchase for slightly easier on-demand access. These, of course, become a bit obsolete as new technical bulletins, etc., are issued. Star Service CDs and DVDs
Things are changing, of course, and like even the latest BMWs, there are a LOT of things that can't be accomplished without attachment of the Mercedes STAR Diagnostic System, which just about zero DIYers own due to the cost.
Read the last couple issues of BMW CCA Roundel where the tech editor (an independent BMW tech) rather clearly and believably indicates DIY is simply going away for many procedures on the latest cars and there are more and more not doable at independent mechanics either.
Just so you know, for the larger Mercedes engines--meaning ALL recent non-4 cyl engines sent to the USA--Mercedes has NEVER fitted a standard transmission in any market.
A couple more links to official Mercedes service information:
I'm seeing that the Star Diagnotic tool is on eBay, looks like around $1200 or so and you hook it up to your lap top? Sound right?
I don't think that is exactly right. For that price you would get a Chinese copy most likely. It could even work well, but no guarantee it works after a few DAS updates. And you don't hook it to your laptop if you mean your ordinary laptop with that. It does not work with any HW and even if it is built on top of XP, it would modify the operating system too much, making it just about useless for other everyday tasks. You should have a laptop specifically assigned for the SDS tasks.
Hah, Bentleys are crap compared to what you can get for your Mercedes!
At http://www.startekinfo.com you can subscribe for free to the entire USA-model Mercedes parts system (EPC). $12/year to get rest-of-world cars, too.
In addition for various subscription fees ($18 for 24 hrs being the most reasonable) you can subscribe at the same website to the entire Mercedes service system (called WIS) which includes procedures, recalls, technical bulletins, everything. It's all electronic, and procedures are interlinked. Nice to have a pdf writer to aid in dowloading, but you can just print if you wish. Additionally, Mercedes compiles this same information onto DVDs for specific models that you can purchase for slightly easier on-demand access. These, of course, become a bit obsolete as new technical bulletins, etc., are issued. Star Service CDs and DVDs
Things are changing, of course, and like even the latest BMWs, there are a LOT of things that can't be accomplished without attachment of the Mercedes STAR Diagnostic System, which just about zero DIYers own due to the cost.
Read the last couple issues of BMW CCA Roundel where the tech editor (an independent BMW tech) rather clearly and believably indicates DIY is simply going away for many procedures on the latest cars and there are more and more not doable at independent mechanics either.
Just so you know, for the larger Mercedes engines--meaning ALL recent non-4 cyl engines sent to the USA--Mercedes has NEVER fitted a standard transmission in any market.
A couple more links to official Mercedes service information:
I'm still learning a lot of these acronyms (WIS, etc. etc.) but from I've seen, I agree, there is tech info that makes Bentley look bad! For ex., I saw the WIS pages for replacing the rear brake pads, disabling the SBC (another acronym!), etc.
The info is so detailed, pictures, everything numbered, etc., it's almost insulting to a mechanic. Really amazing in detail.
That STAR Diagnostic System does seem to be an issue, though. What's the current best price/source for one? If you were to have one, would it need to be updated, or would it remain good and useable for the most part for, say, a 2005 car?
Finally, yeah, the BMW tech editor MAY be right. But maybe not. I remember first doing work on BMWs in the early 80s. The CIS injected cars were just coming out of warranty, and a lot of people thought those were too complicated for a DIY to work on! They longed for the days of carbs. Same thing happened in the mid-90s with the OBDI cars, but those are now worked on DIY pretty heavily.
I agree, though, that this time may be different. I hope that it won't be. Because really, for the most part, a 2008 Mercedes isn't fundamentally THAT much different than a 1986 MB. They all have internal combustion, gasoline engines, auto transmission, etc.
Of course, the newer ones have a ton more electronics, but that, hopefully, is just a matter of the aftermarket developing reasonable and affordable reading and interfacing devices.
Hopefully that will happen. If trips to the dealership are required, with no alternative, these will likely become disposable cars in 10 years. Which seems a shame, given that they are built (for the most part) so well and should stay on the road for 25+ years (IMO).
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