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Conductor Plate Problem?

5K views 29 replies 9 participants last post by  Darkmann 
#1 ·
MY01 E430 @ ~220K Miles
Every so often (I can't nail down a pattern), while driving in D, the tranny will get stuck in a lower gear. When it happens, sometimes the tranny display shows D, sometimes 4. However, whenever it happens, no matter what I do, the tranny does not change gears, not even via touch shift. If happen to hit a STOP or red light environment, taking off is a very slow process - either the tranny is slipping or I have a hell of a drag somewhere. The only way to get back to normal is to stop the vehicle and restart a minute or two later. Usually, on slow drives, I can tell impending pop: scary hard 1-2 shifting from dead stop, and a couple irregular shifts after that. But no way to tell when it will happen at highway speeds. It seems like it happens more often with the A/C on, but I have since debunked that. It does seem to be related to temperature.

Last week, this happened as I was cruising to work at ~65 -70. I did not know it had occurred until I hit my first red light (~25 - 30 minu8tes after I began my trip) and noticed a ton of smoke coming from under the car. When nothing was happening when I engaged touch shift (and the tranny was indicating 4), I knew what had happened and pulled over to a parking lot, tranny slipping/dragging as described earlier. A couple of minutes later, all seemed fine.

What the heck did I burn? Is this a conductor plate problem or something else?

Car is currently parked until I can fix.
 
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#6 ·
Thanks for all replies. I do not believe it is a trans maintenance problem. I have done the trans fluid change 3 times on this vehicle and the electronic thingy was done once during a TSB or recall campaign. The first time I noticed this problem, I immediately got a tranny fluid change - #4. I have to get my records to gage exactly when I did that, but it was just last year. Bottom line is that on this an my other MBs, I have broken from the MB lifetime mantra regarding tranny service. So, I don't think it has to do with bad tranny fluid in the system.

Regarding the electronic plug, I did ask my local MB folks to check (just in case) and they did not find any issues there.
 
#7 ·
I assume you do not have a CEL on the instrument cluster, however I would get the TCM and other modules scanned first. Some TCM errors do not translate to a CEL at all. Also the past history may indicate complaints regarding CAN communications failures with the other modules such as the ECU and the ASR/ETC (regarding wheel speed sensors, pedal value sensor, throttle actuator position, engine rpm.... etc.). These comm failures do not generate CEL. but they have TCM codes in the TCM registry.
 
#8 ·
No CEL. It is as if nothing ever happened. I have a very goon local indy. I did talk the issue with him several months ago when it started. I'll drag the lady to him for a diagnosis and, hopefully, a fix. I think it is a conductor plate failure.
 
#12 ·
Well, my W212 has "historic" codes problem that I can't figure out so far.
When proper troubleshooting is often hard to do, the shops tend to ignore it and jut put parts at customer expense.
Figure out why shop would rather replace $300 plate instead of $10 bushing.
You should read forum more often - it was told here thousands of times that 99% of problems with those transmissions is contacts contamination due to leaky bushing.
Still my first rule of approach is in case troubleshooting is uncertain - start with easy and cheap approach.
 
#15 ·
She is Old

...
You should read forum more often - it was told here thousands of times that 99% of problems with those transmissions is contacts contamination due to leaky bushing.
Still my first rule of approach is in case troubleshooting is uncertain - start with easy and cheap approach.
I agree and that is good advise - except for the "read forum more often" thing. I'll ask my indy to go through the steps before spending major $$$ to fix stuff. Frankly, I'm at that point where I am ready to let go of this E. She's been good to me but she is OLD.
 
#13 ·
The good news is if you don't have any stores codes..

I would buy OE MB/Chrysler connector plug $14 - and a can of MAF cleaner which is $9 at a local auto parts store.

If the last time your 220K mile E430 has the connecotr plug changed was under "recall" that was some time ago - really.

https://www.amazon.com/Chrysler-Dodge-Sprinter-Transmission-Connector/dp/B003ZW4M0Y

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-05110-Ma...F8&qid=1496356588&sr=1-2&keywords=maf+cleaner

Replace the plug and pull/clean the transmission control module - should be in the "stickies" - so you are out of pocket under $25

There are China made conductor plates for like $100 - and genuine OE about $170. If you choose to buy China, if it comes with a connector plug - throw the China connector plug away.

I have seen 722.6 runs way-way past 220K - it can do it with proper maintenance - if there were other issues then best to pull the pan and see how the existing fluid "smalls" and if there is any junk there...
 
#17 ·
The good news is if you don't have any stores codes..

I would buy OE MB/Chrysler connector plug $14 - and a can of MAF cleaner which is $9 at a local auto parts store.

If the last time your 220K mile E430 has the connector plug changed was under "recall" that was some time ago - really....I have seen 722.6 runs way-way past 220K - it can do it with proper maintenance - if there were other issues then best to pull the pan and see how the existing fluid "smells" and if there is any junk there...
Well, yes and no. When the plug was fouled, besides the recall, there was clear evidence of an issue - I have to go through several posts to recall what evidence there was, but there was some, and it was not what I am experiencing now. Regardless, when I first sensed this issue last summer, my first action was to do a tranny oil change (#4 on this car). During that maintenance, I specifically asked the shop to check the condition of the connector plug - plug is fine. Somehow, something is forcing the vehicle to downshift to a lower gear (even at high speeds) and disabling any ability for the vehicle to upshift based on RPM. The smoke is from stressing some tranny pieces at this condition. I have to find out what I burned. I agree with you that the pan has to come down to at least check the condition of the oil which I just changed last summer. I drove the car today and she drove like nothing ever happened - at WOT on highway, trans shifted normally and she was a monster again - but I know she is sick inside:confused:
 
#16 ·
Ask your indy to read the TCM stored / current codes, and post them here. I cannot believe the gearbox will get stuck to one gear without any internal codes (after some detection of internal issues). He will probably check / replace the plug adapter and maybe the TCM for contamination. He may not be willing to clean the TCM (they want to replace it) if he finds contamination. In that case, it is something you can do yourself.
 
#18 ·
That's the plan. I hope there are codes stored - I hope. My indy is pretty darn good - former MB tech and all he does is BMWs and MBs. He refused to do my VW and Nissan at any cost. On parts, he is strictly OEM but offers advice on non OEM - batteries, springs, shocks/struts, for example. He saved me $$$$$ on my ML when my local MB shop wanted me to replace my transfer case for $6K+. He traced the issue to the center bearings. If the TCM needs cleaning, he will do it ... and charge me accordingly.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Can't find WIS that tells about requirement, but it come +- 10 years ago, so it was not originally advised when cars/transmission come on the market.
Greg made hot topic about it .. 9 years ago http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1369000-transmission-fluid-leak-connector.html
Still 10 years should be enough time for indy to learn the procedure.
BTW thanks to mechanics like that I could buy SL500 for $1300.
1 pilot bushing, some ATF, contact cleaner and limped car runs like new.
Bottom line it is your choice, - sell the car for next to nothing, or spend 10 bucks on new bushing.
 
#22 ·
...
Bottom line it is your choice, - sell the car for next to nothing, or spend 10 bucks on new bushing.
I understand what you are saying but I have a problem pinning that to the source of my problem. I took the car out again this evening and did some test runs on a back-road in my area where there are no cops and no other vehicles - just animals.

    • From dead stop through 70, WOT, vehicle functions as designed.
    • Touch shift from 70 through 3rd gear, everything works as designed
    • From dead stop, WOT through 120, touch shift to 3rd, vehicle functions as designed
    • Then I hit the highway, merged onto a 65 MPH two lane at 70, down shifted to 4, smashed the throttle up to 90, back to D, vehicle functions just as designed.
    • Then I went to my local Outback to grab dinner, drove sanely all the way and back home, vehicle functions as designed
    If I had a bad bushing, wouldn't it had shown up somewhere in that harsh environment - once the bushing is bad, it stays bad? I am trying to find the source. What about the smoke?
 
#23 ·
There is nothing solid about liquid contamination.
I am kind in your shoes with W212.
I have MAF code.
Local stealer want $450 for new MAF. I bought used and the same code.
Point is that the code can be triggered by intercooler leak and I found some bad seal. Not much, but 1 tiny seal cost $35 locally. Finally I placed the order with Husher for new MAF AND new seals.
So you have it easy brother facing only 10 bucks decision.
No pity :)
 
#24 ·
There is nothing solid about liquid contamination.
...
Point is that the code can be triggered by intercooler leak and I found some bad seal. Not much, but 1 tiny seal cost $35 locally. Finally I placed the order with Husher for new MAF AND new seals.
So you have it easy brother facing only 10 bucks decision.
No pity :)
Love it. Thanks for our help. She is going to the shop this week - I'm going to figure this out and post results.
 
#25 ·
UPDATE

I took the car to my indy yesterday and after diagnosing the problem, he called me to say the issue was with the conductor plate. He did go check the connector and other items. For $827, we put in a new conductor plate, replaced the tranny fluid and filter, and put in a new plug (2035400253). So far, no issues, but I not know for certain until I have driven it many more miles. So far, in hard driving, no issues.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Hard to say. How much do you think it should have been? I can use that info for future work. Total for parts was $485.00 and the rest was labor (3 Hrs - that includes diagnosis for the smoking). The conductor plate was $300.00.

BTW, for all, after I got the car back, I cleaned her up and did an engine wash - after motor cooled down, sprayed simple green all over, scrubbed grime and other undesired residue as best as I could, splashed low pressure H20 on the motor bay, let sit for a while, redid all over and let sit in our 90 degree temps we had on that day. Came back and used my blower at low pressure to "smooth" things out. The car started fine with no issues. I have been driving and so far, no issues. I did notice significantly smoother shifting on similar routes, with me trying to mimic similar driving behavior.

So far, this may have resolved my issue - I feel really OK, but only time will tell.
 
#27 ·
Glad to hear that your indie seems to have fixed the transmission issue. Do you know how he diagnosed that the conductor plate was bad ? Were there any internal transmission related codes by any chance ?

How about the black smoke ? What was his explanation for that ?

Thanks for reporting the update..
 
#28 ·
I don't know what went to his diagnosis but I'll ask and I'm sure he will tell me - I'll keep all posted. What I know is that we discussed pretty much all the suggestions which were posted here and he must have ruled them out by either examination or experience or ... I certainly will ask.

Regarding the smoke, it was actually the blue variety. He traced that to a slight engine oil leak - oil dropping onto the hot exhaust, and possibly slight leak from trans pan onto the exhaust. I knew about the motor oil leak but I still think that the smoke was related to the tranny issue. My seasoning is that if it was oil onto exhaust, I should have been seeing that more often. I see three drops of oil on my garage floor every so often, but only after driving car for a while. If the car sits in garage, motor cold, for months, not a drop. I'd planned to fix anyway, so one more item in my basket.
 
#30 ·
UPDATE #2 I think we can close this thing out. The car is driving fine and I truly believe the issue is resolved. Last weekend, I braved a 2.5 Hr trip to DC (that's 5 Hr round trip - never would have done this before the conductor plate fix), pushed the car hard, and she responded with cool. No way I could have done this without the repair. No smoke despite hard driving at high ambient temperatures. I think I'm good. Of course, if I the issue pops up again, I'll let you folks know.
 
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