722.6 Sudden Major Leak from Bell Housing - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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722.6 Sudden Major Leak from Bell Housing

Hey guys,

So I was driving driving yesterday and while stopped at a light a noticed a little light smoke coming from the underside of the car. I pulled over and noticed the smell of transmission fluid right away. I looked under the car and transmission fluid was dripping almost pouring out of the bottom of the car. Fortunately I was a few miles away from my house. You can see the drip trail leading to the car from the pics below. This is from me backing the car up into the spot near my house. I put the car up on jacks and noticed It's coming from the bell housing. The only thing I checked or tried to check was the drain plug on the torque converter. The plug and washer are new from when I changed the transmission fluid, but the plug along with the rest of the torque converter were soaked so I couldn't determine if that is the issue. it seems like it is coming from the transmission side not the engine side so my guess is that it is the torque converter seal or the torque converter itself but I can't be sure until I get the transmission off.
My questions are -
Is there anything to know before diving in and taking the transmission off? Or are there any other simple checks to look into before undertaking such a heavy job?
If I replace the seal on the torque converter should I replace the torque converter as well or just leave it? Anything else to replace on the trans while it's off the car without going to deep into the internals?
Could the amount of fluid be an indicator of what part is failing? I might have at least lost a quart driving 2 maybe 3 miles.

Everyone's advice would be appreciated. MAVA if you want to weigh in that'd be great.
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post #2 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 08:17 AM
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It does look like main seal to me.
Analyzing, you made it home where the big leak start showing at idle.
Main seal will leak less at higher rpm

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post #3 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 08:43 AM
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Jeremy,

Now, you are leaking from the point where the union of the transmission bell housing, and the engine? not from body of the transmission to the bell housing?

How many miles on the clock? These cars are not getting any younger, and the heat is just kills all the rubber seals on the perimeter of the transmission, and this is true for any transmission, and you are experiencing that now.

Lets assume it is the front seal, and you are going to remove the transmission, and do not want to do a full rebuild.

I would change the TC(torque converter) with a updated one from Wit-Trans, Front seal, Front bushing, rear seal, Interlock(or the rubber), shifter seal, rear interlock seals, dipstick seal, and top vent seal

It does require you to remove the bell housing from the transmission to front bushing, so that is your call, but the front seal will be easy once the bell housing is off...

Now, I would rebuild it if were going through this, these 722.6's are easy to DIY, but I do not know your skills, but I assume you have the skill to Diy and remove it. You can do it...

Download the manuals, and take a deep thought if you want to embark on this task...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...ce-manual.html

I have about 250 High Resolution pictures of the 722.6 rebuild process. Send me a 16gig flash drive with a pre paid return postage envelope, and I will duplicate my info, and you decide what you want to do...


Martin
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post #4 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajtek1 View Post
It does look like main seal to me.
Analyzing, you made it home where the big leak start showing at idle.
Main seal will leak less at higher rpm
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAVA View Post
Jeremy,

Now, you are leaking from the point where the union of the transmission bell housing, and the engine? not from body of the transmission to the bell housing?

How many miles on the clock? These cars are not getting any younger, and the heat is just kills all the rubber seals on the perimeter of the transmission, and this is true for any transmission, and you are experiencing that now.

Lets assume it is the front seal, and you are going to remove the transmission, and do not want to do a full rebuild.

I would change the TC(torque converter) with a updated one from Wit-Trans, Front seal, Front bushing, rear seal, Interlock(or the rubber), shifter seal, rear interlock seals, dipstick seal, and top vent seal

It does require you to remove the bell housing from the transmission to front bushing, so that is your call, but the front seal will be easy once the bell housing is off...

Now, I would rebuild it if were going through this, these 722.6's are easy to DIY, but I do not know your skills, but I assume you have the skill to Diy and remove it. You can do it...

Download the manuals, and take a deep thought if you want to embark on this task...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...ce-manual.html

I have about 250 High Resolution pictures of the 722.6 rebuild process. Send me a 16gig flash drive with a pre paid return postage envelope, and I will duplicate my info, and you decide what you want to do...


Martin
There is 216k on the Clock. Yes it is the union of the bell housing to the engine so its in the bell housing itself. not Transmission to bell housing leak. What is the value of updating the torque converter rather than leaving the old one assuming the old one works fine.

I am going to print out the manual today at work and take a look at it tonight and get back to you. How long did the rebuild take you? And what exactly would I be rebuilding vs leaving?
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post #5 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 02:03 PM
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200k is the boundry of leaking major seals and very worn frictions. I anticipate that as I'm 400 miles from 200,000 miles.

I have been doing this for a while I can rebuild one of these in six to eight hours, but it will take you three to four times a long.

Replacing all the rubber seals, and replacing all the frictions. Also replacing the three bushings(mandatory-especially the K2 bushing). Replacing a bonded piston, and the two sprag bearings. Ahh torque converter always on the 722.6..

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post #6 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MAVA View Post
200k is the boundry of leaking major seals and very worn frictions. I anticipate that as I'm 400 miles from 200,000 miles.

I have been doing this for a while I can rebuild one of these in six to eight hours, but it will take you three to four times a long.

Replacing all the rubber seals, and replacing all the frictions. Also replacing the three bushings(mandatory-especially the K2 bushing). Replacing a bonded piston, and the two sprag bearings. Ahh torque converter always on the 722.6..

Martin
I just want to make sure that I have everything down. If I choose to do a rebuild go for the front and rear seals, All of the clutch friction plates, but it looks like it would only be sold in the entire packs.

When you say bushings you mean the bearings in each of the kX drums?



Are all of the friction disks mandatory?

I am also curious why replace the torque converter if this one is working. What's the difference between this one and updated one?

Sorry for all the questions. I am seriously considering it, when I changed the transmission fluid I noticed a few tiny little pieces in the oil about 10k ago, reading watching reading up the link you posted up in this forum and the manual I think it may have been a few rollers from one of the bearings (probably K2 since that seems to be the most common failure). It seems like a cool project.

in the attached picture is what I would need to replace (I didn't highlight all of the clutches and all the rubber seals because they are a little more obvious I think. Is there anything I missed or mislabeled?
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post #7 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:20 AM
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post #8 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson View Post
I just want to make sure that I have everything down. If I choose to do a rebuild go for the front and rear seals, All of the clutch friction plates, but it looks like it would only be sold in the entire packs.

When you say bushings you mean the bearings in each of the kX drums?



Are all of the friction disks mandatory?

I am also curious why replace the torque converter if this one is working. What's the difference between this one and updated one?

Sorry for all the questions. I am seriously considering it, when I changed the transmission fluid I noticed a few tiny little pieces in the oil about 10k ago, reading watching reading up the link you posted up in this forum and the manual I think it may have been a few rollers from one of the bearings (probably K2 since that seems to be the most common failure). It seems like a cool project.

in the attached picture is what I would need to replace (I didn't highlight all of the clutches and all the rubber seals because they are a little more obvious I think. Is there anything I missed or mislabeled?
I understand your concerns, and questions. Ask all you want...

A)All of the clutch friction plates, but it looks like it would only be sold in the entire packs.
No, You can buy them in singles, yet a bit tricky to see them correctly without looking at the section drawing(cut-in-half drawing-Page 8 in the revised ATSG manual). I would go this route.

To get the correct count without opening the transmission you need to know what 722.6 you have. Need to know the "XX" in the 722.6XX. You can do this by crawling under the car and reading the stamp marking an inch or two above the pan near the dip-stick pipe, or look at the EPC data print out of your car.

B)When you say bushings you mean the bearings in each of the kX drums?

Their are three bushings:

1) The bushing(Pump Bushing) right behind the front seal Part 034

Sonnax Pump Bushing - 68004-01

2) The bushing on the end of the stator Part 037

Sonnax Rear Pump Stator Bushing - 68915-01


3) The K2 Bushing bearing(Must replace this-No-If's-And's-Or-But's on this one) Part 038

Sonnax Input Shaft Bushing - 68410-01

Get the pressure regulation spring too

Sonnax Regulating Pressure Control Valve Spring - 68942-01

I have bought these from these guys:

Mercedes transmission parts,TransmissionpartsUSA.com

I have coupon code for 15% off code DEAL15 for the month of May

This parts USA may be cheaper that Wittrans for everything. Now, the torque converter is made by CVC Torque Converters, and distributed by Wittrans Only!!! They are About $200 for a rebuilt with your old core that have the Sonnax Updates.. Here are the locations of the Wittrans Offices:

Torque Converters Distributors Page - Consolidated Vehicle Converters, Remanufacturing Torque Converters for Automatic Transmissions

Extra Parts

4) The Bonded Piston Part 967
5) K1 Sprag Part 658 - Page 61 of the revised manual, and you will need the 20 Element x 0.845 Height
6) K2 Sprag Part Second-Photo Part 654 - Page 61 of the revised manual, and you will need the 20 Element x 0.845 Height

C) Are all of the friction disks mandatory?

No, but at 200k transmission it is logical to replace them, but the critical ones are K3 & B1 clutch pack, and B3 if you have to reverse out onto a road for work, any other repetitive routine.

D) I am also curious why replace the torque converter if this one is working. What's the difference between this one and updated one?

Al Savage posted the reason why get the updated on, but the real reason for me is it contains frictions inside, and it gets "pulsed on" from 2nd to 5th gear, so you-bet-you those frictions inside are WORN.... See the section drawing(Page 8 on the Revised ATSG Manual) with shift truth table showing what frictions are on for a particular gear.

E) I noticed a few tiny little pieces in the oil about 10k ago, reading watching reading up the link you posted up in this forum and the manual I think it may have been a few rollers from one of the bearings (probably K2 since that seems to be the most common failure). It seems like a cool project.


The tiny chunks of friction material can come from anywhere, but I think they are K3,B1,B3, or inside the torque converter. Sadly your generation of transmission DOES NOT have a roller bearing for K2 bearing, but from past conversations on the W210 forum. Al Savage pointed out the E300 Diesels have a four-pinion output shaft part 580(second photo) like the V8/V12. +2000 E and S class trannies have the updated K2 bearing, and in my book I would updated the shafts to a ball bearing form a +2000 car as I have done this to my 98 W140. I have 2003 W220 internals inside my W140, but I have never done a Diesel, so do not know the outcome.

It is a very messy/soggy project, so you need a nice hard surface. I have a nice 1" thick phonolic table top made of solid Bakelite(weighs a ton....). A Formica table top, some stainless table top will do.

F) in the attached picture is what I would need to replace (I didn't highlight all of the clutches and all the rubber seals because they are a little more obvious I think. Is there anything I missed or mislabeled?

If you download the old ATSG 722.6 manual-There are three manuals, and the third is the Chrysler one too. The old ATSG manual says the clutch count per the "XX" of the 722.6XX(on page 9 and 10), and from page 4 of the old one a E300 has either a 722.608 or 722.600. The .608 has more frictions over the .600

The other things of replacement:

1) Six new 13mm torque converter bolts
2) New output shaft nut

Now, the 722.6 does not have lip-seals like a 722.3-722.5 which is a pain to install on every drum, but take a look at this thread on the "what else I need"

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...resources.html

The goal is get "dead-on" close to the minimum gap friction/steel spacing as the closer the gap is to spec the less time it takes to get into gear-The less Fill-Cycles. It is all about those fill cycles...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...-worn-out.html

You may have to buy new sized spring clips to get the gap right-on to the minimum spec, and I would move Heaven and Earth to be right at the minimum number for clutch packs K3(Specially K3),B1 & B3

In your shoes, you can buy the Seal Kit(From Wittrans or RockAuto), and buy the individualized BorgNWarner frictions, (or Mercedes Frictions)

For K2 bearing Bushing their is a specialized extractor tool which works like a charm, and is sold by Harbor Freight as a set

I know fed you enough info to make your head spin, and I know you will have questions... Swallow this slowly

All the best,

Martin
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Last edited by MAVA; 05-19-2017 at 07:35 PM.
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post #9 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 05:39 PM
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Why are you so far away from meeeeeeee..... One of these days I want to just pop over to your shop and just tear out my stuff with your guidance, lol.
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--1998 MB E300TD 285k
--1997 MB E320 198k
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--2011 Suzuki DL650 44k
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post #10 of 114 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 08:32 PM
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Ha! Right now I'm driving through southern Oregon toward South Pasadena for a week in a rented Enterprise van. Probably be my last driving trip to LA ever. From now on I'll be flying down and renting a car.

Anything you need me to pick up in Sacramento and deliver to LA? The van is nearly empty.

Regards,
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