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Car dies on me - needs towed

4K views 48 replies 8 participants last post by  mrboca 
#1 ·
E300D - Picking up someone at the airport today. I pull into the terminal and am idling for no more than about fifteen seconds and the cars shuts down. Won't start again although it cranks just fine. No check engine light. It looks like the fuel lines are full. Half a tank of fuel and the first half of it went through the system just fine. So I had to have the car towed home about 45 miles.

When i get home the tow truck driver turns the key and the car fires right up. Seems just fine. Haven't had a chance to hook up my OBD scanner yet, but I'll do that tomorrow, if I don't find out anything else.

So what could it be and where do I start looking? Nothing like this has ever happened before. I'm stumped. First thought is to check both of the filters, but they certainly aren't due for replacement yet. Maybe a bad batch of fuel?

Side note - I went through several heavy downpours on the way to the airport, but never went through any water more than a couple of inches deep.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the reply. Tell me more about the CPS. What is it and where is it and is there a test for it?

Also crossed my mind that I got a bad batch of fuel or maybe I'm growing some penicillin in my tank, since the car gets rarely used these days - 3000 miles in the past year.
 
#4 ·
It is the crankshaft position sensor. L5/6 in the picture below

STAR TekInfo

item 12 in the list. If the CPS or (CKP as called here) suddenly stops sending messages the engine dies and you will not receive any CEL. If you get codes, it would indicate partial failure of the signal.


STAR TekInfo

How to test it ? You cannot really test it unless you have a scope. Typically you replace it if it is confirmed that the CKP is at fault.

With a CKP fault, the engine dies when hot, and it will crank but not start for 15 minutes or so, after the engine cooled down a bit. The failure can show itself in the most inconvenient time, so if it is the problem, replacement is the only option.

Regarding the fuel issue, only you know what the condition of the fuel is, however I would have thought, you would have rough idle, even after the car restarts, if bad fuel is the suspect.

Connect the scanner and maybe some pending code will come up.
 
#7 ·
Are you guys pretty much ruling out the K40? It is original to the car, but I have a spare that I've been hauling around for ten years. My thought initially was to swap out the K40 and see if the problem reoccurs. If it does, then that certainly would point to one of the other parts. Cost of the CPS is $80, so that's not going to break the bank. Shutoff valve I think I replaced years ago. I just hate to throw parts at a problem if I'm not positive I know what the bad part is.

Of course here is another data point that may confirm an issue. I just went out to start the car again and it started up just fine twice. Never took it out to heat it up though. So I can drive it as it is, but I'd hate to have to be towed again, although maybe as you say, once the car cools down, it "might" start again and get me home?
 
#10 ·
Cost of the CPS is $80, so that's not going to break the bank.
Hi Len,
I had something similar happen on our e320 and it was the cps. I bought a genuine Bosch part for quite a bit less than the dealer price. FCP Groton has them.

By the way, my wife who usually drives the car told me after it happened to me - 'It happens all the time" Just let it cool off ;)
 
#8 ·
You can make up whole list what it COULD BE, including dirty tank "sock" and who knows what else, but with lack of monitoring system, you will have to test it the hard way.
Back on youtube you will find a video how a guy tested bad CPS on the bench using hairdryer.
 
#9 ·
Well, I am not really ruling anything out. It failed only once, and not enough data. But it is not like rough idle or surging, it is a complete shut down, which can happen in a bad neighborhood. I have not yet to replace a CPS. I have one spare, but not for installation at the road-side. I happen to carry a bottle of water in the trunk, Carefully and slowly pouring over the CPS may cool it down enough to restart the car with minimum downtime, if such a fault comes up.
 
#11 ·
How about you start the car, let it idle for 30-40 minutes or so, that should bring up the temps enough to see if it will start again when hot.

K40 relay is a possibility....but doubtful. On gasser cars, k40 controls the fuel pump and starter, so it could be a possibility....but on diesel? The major thing it does is control the starter. No fuel pump since the lines are gravity fed and vacuum controlled, soooooo....

On my E300TD the k40 is original (presumably) and the damn thing has 300k on it.
 
#13 ·
Thanks guys - all great info and great suggestions. Hope to get more info and read any codes if any tomorrow. Stay tuned. I'll be back for more help I'm sure.
 
#15 ·
FYI, turning fan blades around will not change the direction of flow.
You will loose efficiency as the blades have aerodynamic cross-section that will work poorly "up side down" but the flow direction can't be changed without changing direction of turn.
So is the 1998 E300DT fan-less again?
For some reason the issue become huge kick on forums as even technically-inclined moderators can't get it.
 
#17 ·
I was curious and reversed the blade of the standalone room fan unit. The air did not come out from the front at full speed , but a little bit both from the front and the back, and all around !!! I think it depends on the propeller design. The fan blades (3) are of curved design, not straight and flat. I do not remember what the propeller design is for the visco fan. Then again there is the fan shroud which the room fan unit does not have.
 
#18 ·
Hooked up my code reader and got one code, P0725 which shows as the "Engine speed input circuit, module - transmission, Status - pending." Car starts up just fine. Didn't take it out to heat it up and worry about needing another tow. Glow plug comes on and goes off just like normal and there are no "Check Engine" lights showing. A little research seems to indicate that this code would be from a bad CPS as some of you indicated. I did not swap in my in stock K40, but I guess while I'm at it, I may as well pull it and see if anything obviously looks bad on it. Leaning to just getting a CPS and installing that. Is that an easy DIY job? Good idea you think?
 
#19 ·
Went at the job today. Didn't get very far. Disconnected the battery and removed the belly pans. Damned if I could find the CPS. Of course you can't see anything, even using mirrors where it is apparently located. Got to do it by feel. So I gave up and figured I'd take another look at Boca's pdf's as well as the EPC I'd ask you guys again. After reviewing the scans, it looks like I am looking in the right place, right at the base of the oil filter housing. I found one electrical connection that didn't look quite right, but I was basing that on what I saw from videos for the gas versions. So any of you who have done this job on the 210 E300, please share any tips you have. Is the job easier if the manifold is removed?
 
#20 · (Edited)
For e320 it is at the back of the engine driver's side. Mine is easier to get to compared to 8 cylinders. You should check the stickies but I have not seen one specific to a diesel.

In my case you put the hood straight up, so you can dive in from the driver's side fender, just in front of the firewall. I could see it and I have the E8 (external torx) socket and several wobbly extensions to make the job easier.
 
#23 ·
85-90C is still sweat spot for the engine.
I recall the car once coming to 96C in city driving, but going to Home Depot, I left DW in the car with idling engine, telling her to keep eye on temperature.
Coming back after about 20 minutes, the temperature actually drop to 92C with 102F on the parking lot.
Now getting my SL500 below 100C in Las Vegas winter is another story.
ops.. it is spring already.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Back to the subject at hand:

Okay, found it (CPS) and got it out. A little light on the subject in the shade helped to find it. It is right below the oil filter as you say and I found that I could only get to the electrical connector from below and I also unbolted it from below. Part of the problem is that all of the online tutorials I found talked about one tab and two tab electrical connectors and the electrical connectors were oval shaped and not round with no tabs like the 606. Also mine had a 5 mm allen bolt holding it in place, while all the others I looked at showed an E8 torx. See attached.

Part is on order - $52 for a Bosch part. The part that came out is a Bosch and the Mercedes part number on it is 003 153 74 28. I believe it is original.

Hope this helps guys who have to do this in the future.

I think I'm going to hold off on replacing the K40 until I see if this fix solves things.
 

Attachments

#27 ·
Good suggestion - thanks for that and thanks for posting the StarTech links. They helped to definitely point me to the CPS. Hope to let you know in a month or so if it was accurate.
 
#26 ·
Okay, let's try this attachment again. I'm not sure what'as going on with my attachment. It shows in the draft message, but does does not show up when I post the message? Is it just me or is no one seeing the photo?
 

Attachments

#28 ·
New part arrived today. Pretty easy installation from below. As an FYI, the new and the old part both read 1150 ohms. No OBD codes showing, so hoping it's fixed. Took it for a quick ride around the block and all is well so far. Longer and hotter drives will tell the tale.

Thanks for all the input.
__________________
 
#29 ·
As I understand it, the CPS on the OM606 cannot affect the starting/idling, even on the '98-99 with electronically-actuated IP.

The OM606 CPS is vital for EGR operation, and may affect boost, but if the CPS is open or shorted the engine should still start and run. At least, that's my understanding.

Maybe I'll disconnect mine and try it.
 
#30 ·
The StarTek data shown in Post #4 says otherwise. I'm not 100% convinced I've fixed the problem. Time will tell. First test drive drive went just fine, but so did the thousands of others prior to my shut down last week. :)
 
#36 · (Edited)
I'm assuming that the lack of attached images showing is an issue with the forum software, as I've seen it several times recently.

Here's a direct link of the attached image I found in the web page's source code of your post :



Looks like they're using Lightbox for thumbnail management; maybe the are suffering through an upgrade.

Code:
<a href="http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/w210-e-class/2146706d1492820672-car-dies-me-needs-towed-e300d-cps2.jpg" 

   rel="Lightbox_15923498" 
   id="attachment2146706" 
   target="_blank">

<img class="photo thumbnail" 
   src="/forums/images/BenzWorld2/misc/spacer.gif" 
   data-original="attachment.php?attachmentid=2146706&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1492820672" 
   border="0" 
   alt="Click image for larger version

Name:	E300D CPS2.jpg
Views:	12
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#38 ·
I'm assuming that the lack of attached images showing is an issue with the forum software, as I've seen it several times recently.
I have had that problem and have solved it by switching to Classic in bottom left corner of BW pages then logging out top right), close browser then start again and hopefully Classic view setting is now still there. This might just be when using Chrome.
 
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