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IR Security key security breached?

3K views 18 replies 7 participants last post by  Torkil 
#1 ·
So I saw that the NEW keys have been breached with a little black box they can get off ebay . LAST night My 1997 was broken into and the little motherless asshats got some good stuff. Of course it is POSSIBLE that I left my car unlocked that night but I am obsessive about locking my car.. I lock my car if I run into 7-11 for 60 seconds . A habit I have had all my life. If I did leave it unlocked AND it just happened to be the same night some tweaker tested the door then, the odds????

I do remember that it took 3 or 4 tries to get the locks to work after I got in the car. The locks on the right side would not go down until the 4th try.

Anyone hear of anything about an IR hack?
 
#2 ·
You locked the car, or you thought you locked the car. Do you wait for confirmation and check the door, or do you press the lock key on the fob and walk away ?

It is possible that the IR signal transmitted (especially pointed to the rearview mirror) jammed with a jammer nearby?

I know there are devices out there for the RF type FOBs. The thief uses a device to jam the receiver in the car, but it can receive the lock signal (and the rolling code) transmitted by the fob. When the owner re-tries and presses the key again to lock, the thief monitors the second rolling code without jamming. So with the second attempt the car locks, and the owner walks away. The thief somewhat generates the next code from the rolling codes detected and send a command with his device to unlock the door. Obviously, the device is specialized to "know" rolling code algorithm used by the car.


Anyway, sorry about your loss. For overnight parking, I have another level of protection, and it is called the closed garage door :)
 
#4 ·
Also i am really sorry for youre losses. Whichever types of unjust potentialy really hurt, but just take comfort that you know he aint gonna learn mutch to be mutch better in the future, yet you know you gonna learn from this and get a better man. Dont dwelve on stuff like this, i dont advice you to forget, quite the opposite, remember it. But dont remember in vain or any blaim.

I had my fair share of bad luck, if if wasnt for that i had no luck at all, but i try my best to not boil over and sink to a similar level of those not behaving as good humans.
 
#5 ·
And, that feeling, "did you lock the door"? Yes you more than likely did, as you know you do everytime.

I had a regular breaking my apartment(ten years ago) while i was at work. And i constantly mentioned it to the Foreman at work, that i know i have locked the door, yet it is open when i come from work.

It is a feeling i still carry with me, but this was a frequent event over time, before i noticed it. So it got buried quite deep into me.
 
#6 ·
Infrared is extraordinary difficult to jam or to hijack. Chances are the thieves simply tried to open the door and it opened, or they used a crowbar to pry the door open enough to wiggle a long metal rod to manually open the door or hit the unlock switch....these things don't require sophisticated tech.

I have a small crowbar and long metal rod (think coat hanger sturdy but bendable) handy for cases when I or customer accidentally lock the keys in the car.
 
#12 ·
No marks if you're careful, or use a rag. It's very easy.

I tested my car....rolled down the window and then tried....

Pulling the lock tab up and then opening door from outside = alarm went off.

Hitting the unlock switch = nothing happened. Doors did not unlock, alarm did not go off.

Used the inside door handle to open = door opened, no alarm.

The last part is the easiest to do with the coat hanger cable....So yes they can open without alarm going off.
So you know.. In my model you can get in the car.. set the alarm and open the door without unlocking them and the alarm goes off.. and is really tough to turn back off too. Done it a couple of times at the most embarrassing moments.
 
#7 ·
i don't assume much anymore, especially from one instance. i have dozens of
occasions in which I drive off and cannot affirm that I've closed the garage door.
so now, I installed an old iPhone in the garage that I can dial into and view live
video feed. there is so much going on in my head (or perhaps some age thing)
that I just go on autopilot and forget to perform a very basic task.

you may have locked it....you may not have.
 
#8 ·
The URL link provides how it it done with the RF. may or may not apply to MB.

Anatomy of the Rolljam Wireless Car Hack

Regarding the door Slim Jim or whatever it is called, isn't this equivalent to opening a locked door from the inside ? If that is the case, does it not trigger the alarm ?

Regarding the IR jamming, anything is possible, but much more difficult if the IR receiver very close to the fob (door, trunk). I wonder what would happen if you have two IR key fobs, one for your car and one for someone else's (of the same type) and you press the lock buttons on the fobs simultaneously.

Just for the hell of it, I tried it with my PC IR remote and the cable IR remote. I pressed one of the non-functional keys on my PC remote which transmitted continuous IR signal, and then volume up / down keys on the cable remote, and the PC remote jammed the cable remote signal, as long as I pressed the PC remote button.

Torkil, it is quite possible you have a new remote with IR ignition interface. This came to the US in 1998, but I know in other places it was introduced earlier. In that case, the remote has both RF and IR central remote control functions.
 
#9 ·
You locked the car, or you thought you locked the car. Do you wait for confirmation and check the door, or do you press the lock key on the fob and walk away ?

Yes I always look for the red lights blinking before I walk away.. but like I said.. COULD I have forgotten?

Chances are the thieves simply tried to open the door and it opened, or they used a crowbar to pry the door open enough to wiggle a long metal rod to manually open the door or hit the unlock switch....these things don't require sophisticated tech.

I have a small crowbar and long metal rod (think coat hanger sturdy but bendable) handy for cases when I or customer accidentally lock the keys in the car.

Well if this were the case They would leave marks no? Not to mention the alarm that would sound bringing a very grumpy and well armed me downstairs instantly. Where i live 20 people would have woken up and looked out their windows. VERY quiet here. BTW it isn't even dark here .. 3 street lights and people lights keep it the opposite of stealthy dark here. Well I am having Cameras and motion sensors installed this week... I wonder how much extra it would be for Auto Cannons or cool LASERS??
 
#10 ·
No marks if you're careful, or use a rag. It's very easy.

I tested my car....rolled down the window and then tried....

Pulling the lock tab up and then opening door from outside = alarm went off.

Hitting the unlock switch = nothing happened. Doors did not unlock, alarm did not go off.

Used the inside door handle to open = door opened, no alarm.

The last part is the easiest to do with the coat hanger cable....So yes they can open without alarm going off.
 
#11 · (Edited)
"Used the inside door handle to open = door opened, no alarm."


That is strange. I just tried it with the driver window down, I locked the door with remote, reached inside and opened the the door with the handle. Alarm and flashing lights. Pressed lock on the remote. The alarm stops.

If you lock the door with the key, the alarm is not armed.
 
#13 ·
as Torkil mentioned, these cars do not use IR for the central locking. IR is only for the convenience system (auto-close windows/sunroof).

(side fact - you can even start the car with no batteries in the key ;) )

sorry for your loss. but yes, they are old cars and by now their security system is well-known to thieves (and that's why they are super easy to code keys for now)
 
#14 ·
As I said before, what was offered in the USA is not necessarily the same as what was offered in the rest of the world for the same model and model year.

The IR + RF remotes came to USA to W210 E series in 1998.

Below shows what was offered in 1997. The difference from 1996 was that the ignition had a transponder coil and the key / keyfob had the transponder for srive authorization.

97 Changes
 
#18 ·
There is a Big If on doors/trunk... it is not uncommon for door/trunk locks to get internally corroded - which means you should use penetrating lubricant and patience to make sure these lock cylinders get unfrozen and work - before the rainy night comes and you need the key to get into the trunk - and you ca't because it froze up ... keep the beat !
 
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