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Immobilization Active, please help

11K views 58 replies 9 participants last post by  mrboca 
#1 ·
Hey guys, I have been working on my 2002 e320 all day today to change the conductor plate, finally called it a night here at 3AM. The connector plug was obviously bad once I got the car on the lift, it has fluid residue all over it and the plug had fluid in the contacts. I installed the new connector plug, new filter, and new conductor plate. I sprayed some electric cleaner into the plug to clean it out. I sealed everything up again and poured in 3.5 quarts of new fluid and then tried to start the car. The car didn't even try to start over. I plugged it into the charger just to make sure it wasn't dead and tried again, still nothing. I don't get a click and the lights don't dim like they would if the battery was low and I was trying to start. I plugged in my star C4 compact which I used to get the car out of hard limp mode initially to get it to the shop and work on it. I did a quick test and cleared all codes. Car still wont start. Re scan shows no faults on any modules except ESP, Audio, and tele aid. ESP says it is not active (tried hitting the esp button, didn't work). I went into the motor electronics section of the quick scan and tried to do an initial startup. I went through all the steps and everything seemed to work fine but then a page comes up and says that immobilization mode is active and it aborts the process. I read through some threads on immobilization mode and most of it seems to be linked to the key, but I have full unlock and lock functionality, and can turn the key to all positions. I couldn't find any information on how to get my car out of immobilization mode but I have tried the basic resets. Steering wheel side to side reset, unplugged battery and left it for awhile reset, tried closing the door and locking it then unlocking it again and then try to start, nothing has worked. I can't even get the car off the lift right now because it wont go out of park. I figured I'd try to make a post here before I head to bed to see if anyone has some insight.

The only thing I can think to do tomorrow is to drain the whole thing again and go through the process of replacing the conductor plate with the original one. I'm hoping its still functional as the connector plug did look pretty bad and was most likely my main problem originally. If anyone has any other ideas I'd greatly appreciate the help, off to bed for now. Thanks.
 
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#3 ·
Thanks mrboca, I'll pull the K40 module from my e430 parts car before I head back to the shop. Ill try replacing the fuses and maybe the whole module if that doesn't work. I still can't find any other solutions so if the fuses are fine I think ill just put the old conductor plate back in and see if it works.
 
#4 ·
I have no idea why you think that the conductor plate, transmission adapter plug etc. is causing you this no start no crank problem. If your conductor plate is bad, your car would still start. The information you provided that your SDS is not reading the ESP, etc. seems to point to the ESP module is not talking to the TCM, possibly due to it has no power. You need to make sure that the ESP and TCM fuses are fine and there is voltage supplied to them. You do not need to replace the K40 module to do that, and unfortunately K40 is not directly diagnose by the SDS. No idea what the history was that compelled you to replace the conductor plate, but something may have shorted during the process.
 
#5 ·
Fair enough, my friend helped me with the whole conductor plate swap and sat with me through my troubleshooting last night. Since the conductor plate was the only major thing we changed he is convinced that is the cause of the problem and is convincing me to put the old one back in. Based on my star scan though I am with you, it definitely points to the esp. I just pulled the k40 relay and fuses from my parts car and I'm on my way to the shop now.
 
#6 · (Edited)
The other thing that you could check is the 13 pin transmission plug adapter that I believe you replaced.. If the adapter is not properly inserted (you should have felt as the o-ring home-in).. If the transmission conductor is not making a good contact, the TCM will never receive a signal from the starter lock-out switch signal (on pin 4 of the connector). If the TCM does not receive a starter lock-out switch open it will not allow the system to crank.

The starter lock out switch is there to indicate that the gear is in Park or Neutral..
 
#11 ·
Alright, so I just replaced the k40 relay module and was able to get the car to start. However, it only starts when the brake is pushed in and the car is in neutral. It also takes some time for the car to be able to go into neutral. After turning the key to the on position and pushing on the brake the car won't immediately move out of park, after a few seconds the shifter unlocks and it can be shifted onto neutral where it will crank for a brief second. I was able to get it running and ran for a while but now my battery doesn't seem to hold enough charge to crank more than a half revolution and I was unable to get it started again. I've had it sitting on the charger while I eat dinner.

And for the pin connector, something I neglected to mention initially is that the screw at the center of the shift sensor plug housing snapped in half while I was installing it. The tip must be stuck in the conductor plate. I was able to get the plug fully seated though and the o rings on the new plug made for a very snug fit so I though it would be fine without the bolt. Maybe that screw was important for the plug connection?
 
#12 ·
The screw is important, because sooner or later you will have the adapter with the transmission plug popping out due to vibration, at the most inconvenient time.

Now you need to remove and fix/replace the conductor plate, and use a brand new OEM plug adapter. Make sure you follow the stickies in terms of how much torque to apply for the center screw.

For car starting, charge the battery fully before you try anything else. The shifter, TCU, ECM and other modules do not like weak batteries.
 
#13 ·
I agree that it is better to spend additional 1 hr in the shop and drop down the plate to clean broken bolt and install new pilot bushing.
Trying to fix loose bushing 200 miles from home in area where nobody knows Mercedes can be really nasty experience.
 
#14 ·
Heading home from the shop now. I agree I should definitely replace the plug housing, having it held in place with o rings is a little unsettling. The starter is still acting weird though.

"For car starting, charge the battery fully before you try anything else. The shifter, TCU, ECM and other modules do not like weak batteries."

I thought that my battery had charged long enough but after that initial start I haven't been able to get any more than a click. Even with a high amp charger plugged directly into the battery I would get nothing but a click and a quarter turn. As for the only starting in neutral problem, it seems like its just easier on the starter when it's in neutral. When I had the car sitting on the charger for awhile and tried starting in park I was able to get a click and a weaker turn.

Everything seems so random though. After trying to get it started again and again I just unplugged the charger and gave it one last try and it started right up! I moved around a bit and then shut it off to see if it could start again and I'm back to clicks. My charger was showing only %85 battery after my final attempts so I left it plugged in to sit over night. Could be a bad battery, I have had the car die while doing some work on the Interior in the past with some lights on but it always charged back up fine and worked for weeks after.

Is there anything that I've touched during this conductor plate swap that could intermittently effect current to the starter? I'm thinking I'll try bringing another high amp starter pack to the shop tomorrow, a pack that was able to get my completely dead parts car to start in the past. If that doesn't work im thinking there has to be something blocking out or diminishing current to the starter.
 
#17 ·
I thought that my battery had charged long enough but after that initial start I haven't been able to get any more than a click. Even with a high amp charger plugged directly into the battery I would get nothing but a click and a quarter turn. As for the only starting in neutral problem, it seems like its just easier on the starter when it's in neutral. When I had the car sitting on the charger for awhile and tried starting in park I was able to get a click and a weaker turn.
It sounds more like you have starter binding. Lubricate ring gear lightly with anti seize. Keyword lightly.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w21...ng-issue-engages-but-stops-9.html#post5092301
 
#16 ·
I agree with Kaj.. Batteries are funny things. You can read the voltage across, and they show almost fully charged but they may have a cranking amps of a 9V battery due to small surface charge in the cells. When you have a weak battery like this , charging will not help much. They get fooled too, and stop charging. Deep discharges to standard batteries do not help either.

Get the old battery tested, and if need be, just get a new battery. At least you will remove one unknown.
 
#18 ·
So I drained the transmission again, and managed to get the bolt fragment out of the conductor plate through the plug hole without dropping the valve body again. Cleaned up the old plug and put the new O rings on it. Fit it in the socket and it sits perfectly, no leaks to speak of and an intact bolt holding it in place. I managed to get it started after multiple attempts with various battery packs and drove it home from the shop. That's the good news. Bad news is I went ahead and bought a new battery and I'm still having starting problems, only now my lights don't dim nearly as much when I get my quarter turn from the crank, and the crank seems stronger. I'm reading through this starter binding thread now. I'll give that a try tomorrow. Thanks for all the help so far.
 
#19 ·
Alright I pushed her up on some ramps and crawled under there to put on some of that permatex anti seize that was recommended in the forum. I kept trying to start it and then went under each time to apply more as it turned. After 6 or so trips I gave up. It seems like it keeps turning to the same spots I already applied to and its still not starting. Maybe I should keep working on it until the whole thing is coated? Haven't been able to get it to start at all today as of yet.
 
#22 ·
You need to turn engine over in clockwise direction using socket not starter. 27 mm or 17 mm allen. All other stuff like voltage drop, loss of ground should have been checked before.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Have you had the starting problem before the transmission issues or has it just started to give you problems ?

I would make sure that the starter is well grounded, and the power connections to the starter relay, starter solenoid, and the starter itself are of low resistance. You could try shorting the starter relay contacts first to ensure sufficient current to the solenoid. The problem could be electrical, rather than mechanical. You may have contact corrosion related issues.
 
#23 ·
I actually have a star system with xentry, but thanks you for the offer! I haven't plugged it in since I got home from the shop though. I'll clear all the codes and see what pops up again on a rescan. I just got the star, but does anyone know if it would show electric issues with the starter? Only thing I've explored on it so far is the quick scan on xentry and clearing fault codes.

I'll try to get ahold of a multimeter to check the electronic stuff to the starter since I haven't tested that stuff yet. Also I had no idea about using a socket to turn the gear, that sure would make things a lot easier. I should have time to try all of this Friday. Hopefully it works out!
 
#24 ·
Oh and Mrboca, all of this started after the transmission work. The car was stuck in hard limp mode but after I cleared the codes it started up fine and drove to the shop. I have had problem starts before when I was doing interior work, but that was just because the battery was weak. Never before have I had these quarter turn starts.
 
#25 ·
To check whether the starter is good, you need to make sure first you have a good and strong battery (charge it up), then energize the solenoid.

I know you had a new battery but you may have a parasitic drain due to your recent retrofits with seats and shade. You really need to do some voltage / current measurements.
 
#26 ·
Sorry for the lack of updates here over the past couple weeks, I was a bit busy with finals and wasn't able to put much time in with the car. I had my grandfather over to try to test the electronics as I am not too familiar with a multi-meter. He tested various points on the k40 relay and they all seemed to be working fine. I'm not sure exactly what else to test electronically, I crawled under the car and took pictures of what I believe to be the starter and the only things I see coming off of it are the black wire, and that Y ribbed tube (picture below). One section of the tube looks like it goes towards the front of the car, one goes towards the back. Is there a way I could short something down here to bypass all computer stuff and see if the starter works? I found a wiring diagram for a similar year C class and it shows a black positive going directly from the battery to the starter and a wire labeled VIO going to the starter relay. perhaps the VIO wire is in this tubing?

As for the STAR system, I plugged it in again and its showing all the same things. No faults except the ESP fault that I took a picture of below. I decided to go into the motor electronics section and do a "initial startup" again which I guess checks the coding and does an initial setup on the engine. I haven't run this since the first day I had the car in the shop. This is the test that showed the "immobilization active" that started this whole post. Since then I was able to get the car started and drove it home so I figured there was no immobilization, however, I haven't been able to get it started again since I got home from the shop over 2 weeks ago. So I ran that startup and it stopped at the same point it did the first day I had the car in the shop and it says the immobilization mode is active and aborts the process. I included a picture of the screen below. Again, I have no key problems, everything I look into about immobilization mode just says key problems.

Interesting side note, I don't know if the cold weather helped with the connections in the instrument cluster or what but I seem to have all my pixels back on the right gear indicator display. The display shows all the gears I am in correctly, park, neutral, and drive are all indicated correctly so I assume there in so problem with the gear position sensor.

So that is where I am now. If "immobilization mode" is active I'm thinking it must be something computer related that is preventing me from starting, although I have no idea why I was able to get the car started several times intermittently while I had the car in the shop, all of this after I first got the "immobilization active" screen initially. Maybe someone who knows more about STAR can advise me here? And if anyone knows of some wires I could cross to bypass the computer stuff altogether and get the starter to work that'd be great. I tried looking around but all I could find was a post about the E300 which I assume would have a different starter. Thanks again for all the help and advice so far.

If my description of events are not adequate, I'm happy to take a video of me trying to start the car, all the sounds it makes, anything I can do to give people a clearer picture of my problem.
 

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#27 ·
You need to short the starter relay contacts to check the starter. The starter relay is the black relay next to the 40 ampere maxi fuse at the side (that looks like an ice-cube).. You need to take it out (with key out) put a jumper wire between what is marked as 87 and 30 (I believe the terminal sockets that are perpendicular in the middle . You should see the markings on the relay itself.

Once you place the jumper, insert the key and turn it to accessory position. You should hear the starter cranking.

This relay supplies the power to the starter solenoid, and it is controlled by the signal from the ECU (the parallel terminals of the relay).

If your starter cranks then you have a problem with the immobilization, possibly something to do with the alarm activated ?
 
#28 ·
Thank you sir! I just did what you said and the car endlessly turns over until I take the key off accessory. Still won't start, but at least its isn't just the quarter turn like before. So that eliminates the starter as a problem? Also, my grandfather checked the new battery and said its fine. I don't think there is any parasitic drain from my interior work, I wired everything exactly how it was in the E430 so it all should be correct. Seems like the car cranks fine after I shorted that relay even after a week and a half of sitting in the cold, old battery would have needed to be charged by now.

I'll continue my search for immobilization fixes, I'll look into that alarm thing too. Maybe I triggered something while I was working on the conductor plate and the old battery was just dead so I didn't hear an alarm?
 
#29 ·
Yes the starter is fine. It appears that the starter relay is not energized by the ECU, or the starter relay coil is bad. With the relay OUT and the jumper OUT, measure the resistance between the two parallel terminals (marked as 86 and 85) of the RELAY. If not open, then the relay is likely to be OK, and install the relay back.

Make sure the connections to the K40 relay module are tight. Check all the fuses on the K40. Sometimes the module fan unit blows the fuse (one of the red fuses) and this prevents the car to start. You can also unplug the fan unit connector ( the two pin connector one next to the big 40 amp fuse marked as G), and then try.

You should be able to access the PSE module with your STAR and query the alarm system (ATA) someone who has the STAR can help how to do it.
 
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