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Old 03-22-2011, 06:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Windows 7, WIS and Carsoft

Hey, folks.

There is a discussion in atul's Carsoft thread about using Carsoft with Vista. If you haven't read it, I'll save you the suspense: it doesn't work. (I thought about adding this to that thread, but didn't really want to hijack it.)

For those of you that don't know, Windows 7 was built on the Vista kernel, so it's generally true that if something worked in Vista it will work in Windows 7 and anything that wouldn't run natively in Vista has problems in Windows 7 as well.

As they developed Windows 7, Micro$oft worked on improving XP mode (and the other compatibility tools) and they are indeed much better. However, while you can use compatibility to start installing WIS (at least the XP version) in Windows 7, the installation will not complete and you won't be able to run it. (I tried.)

The business, professional, enterprise and ultimate flavors of Windows 7, however, come with a license to run a virtual version of XP (this is 32-bit, regardless of the host Windows 7 platform). Out of curiosity, I decided to try and load my old copy of WIS in that virtual environment and it installed and runs fine. However, I didn't try to install Carsoft for one very basic reason: it requires a hardware interface to do any good. For basic PC hardware, such as drives, mice, monitors and (most) printers, Virtual XP in Windows 7 works fine. However, for quirky stuff it won't...and we already know how quirky Carsoft is. Moreover, Carsoft really needs to be on a laptop and better one with a serial port, and anything that old isn't going to run win7 business, professional, enterprise or ultimate...so why bother?

I have an old XP laptop that runs carsoft and my old WIS just fine, and if you're going to use either, that's my suggestion. Get an older laptop with the serial port, replace the hard drive (a weak spot) and just load XP, WIS and/or Carsoft. Snag-it if you want good screen captures, and that's it. Keep it off the internet and you won't need any patches, updates or anti-virus software. That's my suggestion, to just treat it as a dedicated tool, and use it that way.

Hope that helps a few of you out there.




Side note: If you are running Vista, it's worth it to upgrade to Windows 7 unless you simply need a new machine. I've upgraded several Vista PCs and laptops to Windows 7, and in each case they have run better and more stably than with Vista, and for laptops the power management is a little better, too.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Considering that 64-bit XP is a bad joke, getting a free license for 32-bit XP is a bonus. Especially since XP is essentially out of print.

I've never used Vista client, but have used WS 2008 quite a lot. That's the same as Vista, but with expanded capabilities (that don't matter for most users). It's very stable compared to 32-bit XP. And it supports the Hyper-V role. But this prevents sleeping.

Does your Windows 7 machine with a virtual 32-bit XP sleep or hibernate? While I very rarely use sleep or hibernate any more, a lot of people rely on it when moving the machine around.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Considering that 64-bit XP is a bad joke, getting a free license for 32-bit XP is a bonus. Especially since XP is essentially out of print.

I've never used Vista client, but have used WS 2008 quite a lot. That's the same as Vista, but with expanded capabilities (that don't matter for most users). It's very stable compared to 32-bit XP. And it supports the Hyper-V role. But this prevents sleeping.

Does your Windows 7 machine with a virtual 32-bit XP sleep or hibernate? While I very rarely use sleep or hibernate any more, a lot of people rely on it when moving the machine around.
The one I tested it on is a desktop; my primary laptop doesn't really have spare resources for a VM and the other won't host it. I use virtual XP for a couple of things and just threw WIS on it to see if it would "take". I'm also not a sleep/hibernate person; I just shut things down when I'm done and otherwise power settings are configured to leave everything running except the monitor. I still recall when sleep and hibernate were about as reliable as a '64 MG in a rainstorm with original Lucas electronics, so I have never really trusted them since, and Win7 boot time is good enough I don't worry about it. (Indeed, I believe I may have hacked the registry and disabled hibernate on most of my systems, dumping the hiberfil file as well.)

I can test it to see, but it will take me a couple of days. I take it you're more interested in the VM recovery after the host hibernates while the VM is active?
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Another option is to run Oracle's (formerly Sun's) VirtualBox VM environment. Instead of the pseudo drivers you get with XP Mode, there is pretty decent hardware support. You would need a valid XP install key. VMware works as well, but I like the simplicity of VirtualBox.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Bunch of nerds. What's next on Benz World W210 support? - kernel optimizations and larger block sizes for vm partitions? Ahh the ol' VW bug - 3-ish or so wires for the engine and no computer.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I can test it to see, but it will take me a couple of days. I take it you're more interested in the VM recovery after the host hibernates while the VM is active?
No, just wondering if it can do it at all. Adding the Hyper-V role to a machine removes the ability completely.

I do not know how closely the XP-mode is tied with Hyper-V. I've only used Hyper-V, and it's pretty cool.

However, qemu/kvm is pretty cool too, better for many things, and it's free.

I also run WIS in a XP virtual machine, but it's managed with qemu/kvm.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Another option is to run Oracle's (formerly Sun's) VirtualBox VM environment. Instead of the pseudo drivers you get with XP Mode, there is pretty decent hardware support. You would need a valid XP install key. VMware works as well, but I like the simplicity of VirtualBox.
The problem is, where are you going to get a valid XP key? You would have to already own a boxed copy of XP.

Almost every copy of XP sold is an OEM copy. It is not valid to run the OEM copy on any other computer. However, you can run a virtualized copy of the OEM XP on the same computer on which it came. Too bad machines sold with XP aren't capable of that.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Bunch of nerds. What's next on Benz World W210 support? - kernel optimizations and larger block sizes for vm partitions? Ahh the ol' VW bug - 3-ish or so wires for the engine and no computer.
Try putting your VM images on a SSD.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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In regards to getting a valid XP product key.

You can buy a key for 7 and call to activate your XP.

Give the agent your 7 key, install key and they will activate your XP software.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The problem is, where are you going to get a valid XP key? You would have to already own a boxed copy of XP.

Almost every copy of XP sold is an OEM copy. It is not valid to run the OEM copy on any other computer. However, you can run a virtualized copy of the OEM XP on the same computer on which it came. Too bad machines sold with XP aren't capable of that.
You know, I am that guy who actually owns all the software he 'owns'. Too many years in IT to screw my fellow man out of a job.
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