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Reconditioning Battery.

17K views 39 replies 17 participants last post by  wlb50 
#1 ·
Hello all!
Since I am waiting for the parts to arrive, and the battery in my E320 doesn't hold the charge long. I decided to start on a little project. I have a Vector battery charger that can recondition battery and it also checks the alternators with push of button. 8) I've read through few battery posts here but I just want to confirm few things before I go on.

a) Have anybody reconditioned their battery before?
b) Is filling diluted water to 3/4" from the plug correct?
c) Should I remove the battery for this task?
d) How long does the process takes to fully recondition a battery?
e) Should reconditioning have significant results?

TIA
 
#3 ·
I'm not one who can discard a battery based simply on superficial evaluation.
If one has a basic understanding on how batteries are constructed, as well as
how a lead-acid battery functions, it makes it much easier to isolate and deter-
mine the health of a battery.

One should....

1) check specific gravity of electrolyte,
2) ensure proper fluid level,
3) verify cells aren't shorted (sulfation),
4) trickle charge battery (quick charge generates too much heat)
5) check battery voltage under load,
6) perform #1 again

Then....one can better advise as to whether a new battery is needed. It may,
for example, simply need fluid topped and recharged. If so, that costs pennies.
If the battery had been allowed to deteriorate over the months/years to
where the plates have sulfated and shorted out adjacent cells, that's almost
irreversable and a new battery is needed.

A simple volt meter, trickle charger, and a hydrometer is pretty much all one
needs to get a good assessment of the battery's health.

How long to charge is determined by the amount of distilled water one adds.
More water adversely affects the specific gravity of the solution through
dilution. Trickle charging seeks to reverse the process by heating the
sulfated plates and dissolving them back into the solution....and increasing
the specific gravity.

As you charge, you take specific gravity readings every several hours or so.
Solution should continue to become thicker, causing calibrated floats within
the hydrometer to float. Higher the float, the healthier your battery becomes.

What can be challenging to determine visually is whether the plates have
sulfated beyond hope. Volt meter can aid in this determination. Secondary
evluation can be done, with VOM, comparing readings static (after charge)
as well as under engine (starting/cranking) load.

I've taken a battery which has been abused to where almost a quart of
distilled water has been added. Trickle charged with 10 amp charger for
8 hrs, then tapered to 1 amp for 24 hrs. Gal is still running with this battery
in her Scion for over 6 months now, w/o problems.

If you dont have time, tools, or knowledge, then it may be easier to pay for
a new battery, with new warranty. $75-125.

Hydrometer is anywhere from $5 to 20. Volt meter can be had for $20+
 
#4 · (Edited)
There

is no reconditioning a dead battery.You can fill it with water to the proper level if low and check the sg and charge it.lead sulfates electrolyte decreases and the battery dies.Do yourself a favor,don't add acid,wine or any gimmicks.Get a new 1000 cca battery.
:bowdown:
remember battery science every time the battery fails to hold a charge the more sulfation occurs when you charge it again,so it becomes a catch 22 dead leads to more dead.
interstate,mb roadside,others will supply more outlets.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
There are proved desulfation procedures, that help to restore the batteries.
My 3-stage RV charger has equalization mode, that do the same thing. I do it about every 2-3 years, while full timers report doing it every 6 months.
The procedure runs high voltage, so battery suppose to be disconnected from electronics. It takes like 2-3 hr, but I never actually measure it.
When it comes to car batteries, the daily drivers don't sulfate the batteries with daily charging to the degree worth the trouble. The battery in our ML320 is just days from turning 10 years. It left the truck only once, when I repainted the corrosion on the tray.
 
#6 ·
I do agree that you can partially bring a battery back from the dead, and if I were driving a car made in the 70's, I would have little hesitation to do so.

But your battery is an integral part of a very-computerized car. It needs to not just work, but be in very good shape.
 
#8 ·
I agree with Matt L here 100%. He will tell you the weakest component is the computers/modules on these cars. And this can get so expensive, parts and labor wise, so fast you can max out your VISA in a day or two. The quickest way to ruin any electrical circuit is low voltage, the first most susceptible to damage is the sensors then IC boards. If you know your battery is weak, replace it, do not fool around, a bad battery can cause damage that can be impossible to trouble shoot. The single most important part of the W210 car is the battery. Haven't we all heard the one about the 2001 S class for $6000.00 with "some electrical problems", sold as is. nightmare.

vbrookie, this is not a 1968 VW bug you can push start when the battery is dead. Get a new battery,;) and then condition it in a year.
 
#7 ·
Is sex, sex? Is dead....dead?

Obviously, there are varying levels of dead. More often than not, a battery is,
generally speaking, declared dead when it fails to crank....though there are still
ample opportunities to revive. Lights left on when you go to a movie, etc, ie
short term discharges...vs....eaving them on overnight-or-days, may invoke a
deep discharge rendering the battery very difficult to recover.

My blather above identifies basic skills needed to determine whether fluid re-
plenishment, followed by trickle charging, etc is appropriate. Obviously, one
also needs to determine if CPR is needed or a wasted effort.

But too often, folks buy a new battery when one is not needed, simply because
they lack the simple tools to diagnose the level of health of a battery.

One would think that common sense would compel car owners to check their
battery's health the same way they do for air/tires, oil/sump, antifreeze/
radiator, etc. But this also can't be presumed since many folks simply want
a turnkey system and that their responsibility to maintain begins only when
something ceases to function.
 
#9 · (Edited)
A & B Services

Admittedly tangential to this topic: Does anyone know how thoroughly the dealers check the battery during the A and/or B services? I am wondering if it is only a quick "look see" or if they do at least some of the things Raymond is suggesting?
 
#10 ·
MM,

I just called Road Side to change my wife's battery. The Tech hooked up a scan tool and tested 3 items. Battery, alternator and something else. in about 30 sec. he said, your battery is not good and showed me the numbers. He did say said that they perform this same test on the A and B services
 
#12 ·
Sorry for late reply, I was so busy at work, and was busy with girlfriend thing after work. ;)

After reading my post, I realize I should've phrased it with more detail. Yesterday I tried to start but all the lights still illuminated, but it just didn't cranked without chaging it for 5 minutes. I left it running for 30 minutes or so before I shut it off and today it started without a problem. I think the car was sitting in idle for couple of weeks, with me going in and out of the car, drained the battery quickily then it should? The battery isn't totally dead. knock on wood! :) After reading a a page from ripped manual. It said "Battery Recondition improves performance of sulfated and aged batteries." That's why I asked about reconditioning. I guess reconditioning isn't a good idea after all...

All these are very good reply, and I really appreciate it all. After reading though all the posts. I decided to just put some diluted water tomorrow and charge it over night and see what happens. If I am not satisfied with result, I'll replace it with one from Autozone or Sears. I'll post a voltage readout after full charge for raymond and everybody to give me verdict on my battery. ;)

Once again thanks for all the reply!
 
#13 ·
Charge it

then turn on the head lights for 10 minutes to take off the surface charge and then read all the cells with a hydrometer.That will tell you if the battery is good or not.And never jump start and then expect the alternator to charge the battery.It will ruin the battery and can damage the alternator.Always charge a discharged battery with a charger.:thumbsup:
:bowdown:
 
#15 ·
then turn on the head lights for 10 minutes to take off the surface charge and then read all the cells with a hydrometer.That will tell you if the battery is good or not.And never jump start and then expect the alternator to charge the battery.It will ruin the battery and can damage the alternator.Always charge a discharged battery with a charger.:thumbsup:
:bowdown:
Thanks ohlord! I'll pick up battery hydrometer at autozone while I puchase diluted water. :thumbsup:
 
#14 ·





- Fully automatic 5 stage charge cycle for effective charging: Pre-qualification-determines battery condition; Bulk Charge-concentrated charging power; Absorbtion-equalizes battery's cell charge; Float Mode-maintains full charge indefinitely; 28 Day Charge Recycle-re-evaluates battery status for long term storage.
- This high power unit provides error proof operation to fully charge maintenance free batteries and conventional lead acid batteries
- Provides up to 16 volts to enable recovery of sulfated batteries during pre-qualification stage
- Reverse polarity protection, spark free operation, steel construction and designed to prevent overcharging
- Battery Accessory leads and fused ring connectors included
- 3 year warranty

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
#20 ·
I'm a little fuzzy about the specifics, vis a vis, 'hurting the battery', having just
come in from jogging with the dog. Oxygen deprivation is at a peak now. But
I do recall that no modern alternator equipped cars were *ever* designed to
provide anything more than a superficial charge to the battery, ie a sustanance
charge. If you've ever left your headlights on and the battery dies, you've
pretty much done an unhealthy number on the battery (natch). Getting a a
booster start, then believing that by driving around for an hour or two and
feeling satisfied that you've restored the battery is baloney. You've simply
given the plates a superficial recovery charge in the barest of amounts. The
battery will continue to go downhill in terms of capacity.

What is generally (and desperately) needed is a review of the fluid level, and
a deep and thorough trickle charge from a standalone battery charger designed
for this purpose. The voltage to the plates must be within an envelope which
allows it to restore the plates slowly, and under lower temperature than a
20-50 amp boost etc (too hot). Go down to 10 amps....pref 1 amp for a day
or two. A tapering charger is great.
 
#26 ·
But
I do recall that no modern alternator equipped cars were *ever* designed to
provide anything more than a superficial charge to the battery, ie a sustanance charge.
I have to disagree on this as well. Maybe in the old days with generators there was insufficient capacity to recharge a flat battery. Most modern alternators can provide about 85 Amps output. But of course the full output does not go to the battery, only as much as allowed by voltage regulator. I would agree that if you are of the type that start the car, drive one mile to the shop with aircon on high, radio on, etc., then you will probably never get a full charge on the battery, especially if you start out with an already flat battery.

But if you take longer trips, like your half-hour example, you will get the full capacity back very quickly. And yes, the VR will end up giving the equivalent of a trickle charge as soon as the initial quick charge of the battery has been completed.

What I have read, is that it is recommended that you turn on the headlights of the car after it has been jump started - presumable to reduce the initial charge rate to the battery.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I know this is off the topic but I usually just change my battery on all my cars, once every 5 years. I do not want to be stuck waiting for roadside assistance. I buy them from COSTCO and they have excellent warranty.

However, I wonder if the location of the battery inside the passenger compartment might actually lengthen the life of the battery. There are no extreme swings like in temperature in the engine compartment. Any views on this?

BTW any idea why battery is located inside the car? Space? Weight distribution?
 
#22 ·
Certainly space under the hood is at a premium, but you would think that they could have located the modules inside the car instead of the battery. It does help very slightly with weight distribution, but it weighs a lot less than a typical passenger or a full tank of fuel, so I doubt that this was the reason.
 
#23 ·
Since weight distribution has come up, please let me stray further off-topic and offer this. Years ago, I had a Porsche 911. There were 2 batteries wired in parallel, one inside each front fender well. That was supposedly due to weight distribution. Since it was a rear engine car, the front was light (40/60 F/R I think) so that makes sense.
 
#25 ·
I also have 2 (big) batteries over front fenders in my Ford Super-duty Powerstroke.
With 900 lb front engine don't think it is for weight distribution ;)
I used to drive Porsche for couple of years as well. Still am missing taking street corners at 40 mph, but with family trunk space and clean driving record is more important ;)
Coming to the battery placement affecting its life. The inside mounted batteries in our sedans were replaced sooner, than 8 years of age, while the engine compartment mounted battery in our ML is closing on 10 years of age.
Than ML is the only car we originally own since new. I live in coldest point of Bay Area so regardless dry weather we do have lot of morning freezes each winter.
 
#27 ·
Beg to differ

:)the alternator even the high amp ones in the Mercedes are not up to the task of charging a drained battery,it hurts the alternator and if done frequently to a drained battery will harm the battery.Always charge a drained battery that still checks out as good ,with a charger.Your battery and your alternator will love you for it.After a jump start it can take days for a drained battery to even get up to a 60% charge on the alternator,so jump it get it home and charge it overnight or longer.
:bowdown:eek:hlord
 
#29 ·
I think you have to decide every case on it's own merit on what route to follow - so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. :surrender::D:thumbsup:
 
#30 ·
Just to clarify - I've got nothing again using a proper charger to fully recharge a battery if it was flat. But there is no reason if you sit out somewhere in the bundu or the 'hood' with a flat battery due to headlights left on, to refuse a jump start from a good Samaritan to start your car and drive home. If you think about it, Mercedes never had problems in removing things they deem redundant (gearbox dipstick and even engine oil dipstick on newer engines:eek::eek:), but they provided special posts in the engine compartment to jump start the car.

And of course it would not do any good to just repeatedly jumpstart the car if the battery just keeps on going flat. But I credit most people on this forum with enough common sense to work that out for themselves.

BTW Yachmaster, if you were around to drive cars when generators were common, you would know how big a leap forward it was when alternators became the norm. Generators was very much it a hit and miss thing, and flat batteries were very common in those days!

Also most computers runs internally on about 1.5 volts, so while low voltage is not a good thing, over voltage and spikes are the real killer. And for batteries, the real killer is low fluid levels and overload situations (seat heaters, massive boom boxes, etc.).
 
#31 ·
...And for batteries, the real killer is low fluid levels and overload situations (seat heaters, massive boom boxes, etc.).
Since you mentioned that Kobus, the owner's manual also warns us of the power drain associated with the heated, and I believe the ventilated seats. I suppose that's why the car steps them both down gradually; the ventilated step down to off, but in my car the heated function stays at the one dot level, presumably forever.
 
#34 ·
Jay Leno is still using 50+ years old batteries in his Firetruck and he regenerated them several times.
So it is doable and I just restored 2 boat batteries that come with the boat and show absolute 0.
I have computerized charger, that I had to cheat by paralleling good battery so it would "see" the battery, but now the batteries show 12.5V.
Time will show how long they last.
But don't hold your breath and treat it as hobby not the way to run your life.
 
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