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The Life of Synthetic Motor Oil

4K views 17 replies 11 participants last post by  mjhawkins2346 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello. I own a 2000 E320 and I have just replaced the oil in my car. I bought the recommended motor oil for my Mercedes, MOBIL1 Synthetic Oil. I have heard rumors that synthetic oil lasts longer than regular oil; I've heard that oil changes are needed not after 5,000 miles yet 20,000. Is this true? Does synthetic oil lasts longer? I mean it costs a lot more than the regular type, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Any reliable info greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
 
#3 ·
I use Mobil 1 0W-40 European blend in my current MB and passt MB.

I change the oil when the ASSYST tells me too. Usually between 12,000 ~ 15,000 km. Which works out to about 9 months of driving for me.
 
#4 ·
Here is a great forum on all things oil.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

It'll keep you up way too late learning more than you ever wanted to know.

Me? I believe Mobil One is the cheapest insurance you can buy on having a long lived engine.

After all the reading, I still am not prefectly set on the right change interval for fairly average driving -- perhaps 7500 miles, but no more than 10000.

Thoughts?[:D]

Mike
 
#5 ·
I wasn't convinced of the 10,000 mile interval for synthetic either, so I had an oil analysis done. The synthetic in my 210 was cleaner after 10,000 miles than the dino in my 240D after 5000 miles. I let it go to 10,000 miles now without worrying about it too much.

Len
;99 E300TD 72,000 miles
'83 240D 342,000 miles original owner
 
#6 ·
I am routinely transported in GMC mini vans. The company that operates them goes 20K miles between changes and uses mobil one. It's virtually all highway miles and they get close to 200K miles out of them before they sell them. Under those conditions, I believe pep boys oil for 89c a quart would do just as well. Stop and go driving, extreme temps or other extreme circumstances makes mobil one cheap insurance. I just bought 4 five qt containers for less then 20 bucks each at walmart. I change at some point less then 10k miles on my 98 E300.
 
#7 ·
I work in the corporate office of a company which does quick lubes (10 minute oil changes, although really more like 20 minutes). We have seen literally hundreds of cars brought in with synthetic oil with 10,000 plus miles on the oil and it is filthy black. That black color is metal particles, and it will wear your engine out. Many will argue on this point alone, but the reason you should change your oil at an interval closer to 3,000 miles, no matter what type of oil you choose, is because a good oil change facility will also perform an inspection of your car while it is changing oil. This is done more for covering their own butts than it is for your benefit. Our company will note EVERY flaw it notices on the work order. Any leaks, dings, dents, loose what nots, etc. and have them all pointed out to you and have you sign the work order. This is so you do not leave and claim we damaged your coolant lines, or caused a leak, etc. It is pointed out to you and you agree it was there before we start working on your car. This has the added benefit of making you aware of the problems, and gives you the opportunity to get it fixed before you go the additional 7,000 or so miles before changing your synthetic oil. I have been able to put 163,000 miles on my Jeep Grand Cherokee with no major problems because I change my oil every 3,000 miles, and my differential fluid when it is up for a change, and flush my coolant when needed, and change my transmission fluid when needed, and am told of leaks and problems as they happen. Think of the 3,000 mile oil change as a 3,000 mile oil change and inspection. Trust me, your car will last a lot longer!
 
#8 ·
3,000 mile changes is a myth propagated by the oil and oil change industry. I've asked this question of several German car experts, and they will tell you all day long 7,500 miles is more than prudent with synthetic. Non synthetic about 5,000. Any more frequent than that is total waste of money.
 
#9 ·
dma 1965

"That black color is metal particles, and it will wear your engine out."

I think upon analysis you would find that the vast majority of the black material is,by mass,carbon.Sounds like the grease monkeys on your shop floor have managed to do a number on you too.If you are running the correct filter and your engine is not defective there should not be a large build up of particulates in your oil.However,with usage,lower quality oils suffer more from mechanical shear, oxidation and other chemical reactions which is why one should change them far more frequently than a fully synthetic product such as Mobil 1.
 
#10 ·
"I work in the corporate office of a company which does quick lubes..."

In what capacity? Advertising? Janitorial?



"( We have seen literally hundreds of cars brought in with synthetic oil with 10,000 plus miles on the oil and it is filthy black."

It's supposed to be black. Those contaminates not trapped by the filter are held in suspension as opposed to turning into sludge.


"That black color is metal particles, and it will wear your engine out."

??? Metal??? From where? Has your company done any analysis on this oil? Many here have.


"....is because a good oil change facility will also perform an inspection of your car while it is changing oil."

An inspection?? How much are your oil change "technicians" paid? $6.00 an hour? Maybe $7.50? What technical training do they have? Car forums always have stories of these "technicians" and how they leave the drain plug loose or so tight it's stripped and the head is rounded.

"I have been able to put 163,000 miles on my Jeep Grand Cherokee with no major problems because I change my oil every 3,000 miles,"

100% attributable to oil changes? How many miles on the Benz? Is that yours in the picture? How do you account for many here who have put a quarter million miles or more with 10K mile changes or longer?

You mention transmission and differential oil changes. I have another question. Do you take your 320 to your own shop? Have you let them change the transmission fluid in it? I'd be interested to know how the $6.00 an hour technician determined when the transmission was filled correctly? As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if they have an engine oil filter for your car in stock. Your pitch might work in the "Old frumpy ladies who drive mini-vans" forum but most who come here are a little more savvy then that. You have one post to your credit. It's an oil related thread and you claim to work for an oil change company. The picture of your car looks like it was copied from a brochure. I have to ask. Are you a troll? If not, welcome, but no one but the newest car owner here would buy what you're selling.
 
#11 ·
deathrattle - 5/16/2005 11:45 AM

dma 1965

"That black color is metal particles, and it will wear your engine out."

I think upon analysis you would find that the vast majority of the black material is,by mass,carbon.Sounds like the grease monkeys on your shop floor have managed to do a number on you too.If you are running the correct filter and your engine is not defective there should not be a large build up of particulates in your oil.However,with usage,lower quality oils suffer more from mechanical shear, oxidation and other chemical reactions which is why one should change them far more frequently than a fully synthetic product such as Mobil 1.
I beg to differ about particles in oil. We get a report each year from the oil recycling company which shows us what products our recycled oil was used for. Last year alone they were able to reclaim over 3 tons of steel which they used to make into rebar for roadwork. I do not know why they would make something like that up.
 
#13 ·
To reply to your other comments:

I am the CTO of the company.

Our technicians go through a corporate classroom training and our company pays for (but does not require) certification through the AOCA. About 40% are certified. The average wage is $8/per hour.

Store managers get a quarterly bonus averaging $3000 per quarter. If they have 1 warranty claim due to shoddy service, they loose it entirely. Employees agree, in their employment agreement, that warranty services arising from gross negligence will be taken from their paychecks. This is rarely done, but I have seen a few cases with some higher paid employees who have been just plain stupid.

I do not attribute my mileage solely to oil changes, but I will say that I have several friends who have the same year and model who have not driven their Jeeps nearly as long and hard as I have mine and they have had MANY major issues with their Jeeps. Oil changes alone are not why mine has gone so long, but having things pointed out to me is.

I just got my 320. The picture is linked from the Benzworld site (it just looks just like mine). I am not a troll. I have not nor will I tell you what oil changing company I work for. What I will tell you is that MANY of the people working for our company have cars with very high mileage on them and they all get their oil changed an average of 3,000 miles (it only costs us $5 for the oil change). I have not had any of the any fluid changes on my 320, but I do know we service them (I looked up our vehicle records). I am sure you are all very car savvy, and I am glad to be here in this forum. If I am pitching to frumpy old ladies, then I must be doing it for the entire oil changing industry. Our company does carry and will fill your car with Mobile 1 at a higher price and at a great profit. We are happy to do it. People who pay attention to their cars can go longer, but NOT 10,000 miles. A Mercedes engine is better built than most engines. Evidence is in the longetivity compared to most. Mercedes owners are, in general, somewhat better at taking care of their cars, I dare say, or so I shall assume (paying this much for a car will make most people better stewards of their means of transportation).

I do not get a bonus based on how many oil changes we do, and neither do any of the executives. In fact, I get no bonus at all. I make a straight salary. Consider this for a moment, if you will. Is it really in the best interest of any car maker to produce a vehicle that lasts forever? Is a vehicle whose engine goes 1,000,000 miles before dying really a good business model in todays market? Something to consider when you look at an automotive manufacturer's oil change interval suggestions. Talk to a friend who is a mechanic, and I would be curious to know if he or she thinks 7,500 miles is a good idea. Our company CEO has gone to Washington D.C. to lobby against major auto manufacturers who have tried all kinds of insane things to increase their bottom lines. They have tried to get the EPA to pass laws requiring the use of fluids and lubricants manufactured by companies they have interests in by claiming that they are more environmentally sound, and our CEO has paid tens of thousands of dollars in private tests to prove that they were LYING, and has won in arbitration at the EPA in person. I have been with the company for 5 years, and know of at least 4 instances where he has taken auto manufacturers to court for various crooked and disgusting practices. The absolute LAST entity you should trust is a car manufacturer.

Nuff said!
 
#15 ·
AOCA?? American Oil Changers of America? I confess I haven't heard that one.

You make an interesting point. How are we to trust the OEM engine maker to steer us right when they may benefit from a shorter product life. Two points.

1. Ask Mercedes if the quality problems they're currently enduring are helping sales in any way. Has the short lives of components from window regulators, sunroofs, transmissions and even spring perches helped sales? Do you have the front suspension roll out from under the car at 80 mph causing a fiery multi-vehicle crash and then buy a new Mercedes after your discharge from the hospital? I think not.

2. If we can't trust the engine manufacturer to tell us when to change the oil because they have something to gain, can we then trust the oil salesman who has everything to gain? I think not. The fact is virtually anyone who subscribes to car or motorcycle forums has seen numerous participants who have tracked, through analysis, virtually every facet of oil use. 10K or 20K miles is easy depending on use and will easily take a well maintained engine past 300 or 400K.
 
#16 ·
I have used AMSoil for few years now in my work vehicle (Jetta TDI) and I change the oil every 20k but change the filter every 5k, as suggested by AMSoil. Go to http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/ , and you may find useful information on this subject, from the point of view of the manufacturer. I use the appropriate oil for my MB and also change the filters regularly. The filters they sell are a little different from the regular filters and my oil comes out much cleaner, after 20k, than it did when I was using Mobil synthetic.
 
#17 ·
Find out for yourself. Go to your local Caterpillar dealer and buy 3 or 4 of their "Scheduled Oil Sampling" test kits.

Its a kit that consists of a plastic hose & little bottle you fill with oil and a pre-paid mailer to send it to their lab.

Each kit costs $15 or less.

Spend another $15.00 for the sample puller. its a vacuum pump used to fill the bottle of the test kit. Since its best to always pull samples from a hot engine at the same location such as the dip-stick tube it pays for itself quickly.

You must always use the same Brand, type and weight of oil in order for results to be accurate. another issue is to make sure they have a reference sample on file of the oil you are using. Mine did not have Amsoil 15W40 Diesel oil so i had to use one of my kits and send in new unused oil to them so they would have a "known" base-value for all possible tests to be performed in the lab. Without a sample on file they can only perform basics such as the Particulate test and water/coolant contamination and not the Mass-Spec.

So buy the kits, change your oil. and if you really want answers pull a sample every 1000 miles and wait for the lab results to start rolling-in. and in time you will see in clear black and white how long your oil lasts. You will also find out if you engine has any other internal or cooling problems.

http://extension.usu.edu/files/agpubs/fm24.html

You will be suprised to see that your synthetic diesel oil is degraded in only 3000-5000 miles.

I cannot speak for gas engines as I dont own any but if would be nice if someone posted their results.
 
#18 ·
Look at this forum from "Bob the Oil Guy" There are so many scientific posts on specific oil analysis with all manner of engines and oils your eyes will water.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=3

I spent hours and hours reading this site until I felt quite certain that Mercedes is being relatively conservative on their oil recommendations and change intervals.

In fairly routine driving - somewhere between "regular" and "severe" it became quite clear that 10,000 miles was truly a "nobrainer" and 15,000 miles is not out of the question with Mobil One as recommended.

Do yourself and all of us a favor and before pontificating on your observations and wearing an "expert" badge -- read up on it and let's reduce the mis-information and embarrasment.

Thank you.
 
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