QUESTION on my recently installed Brake Rotors, Pads, Brake Lines, Brake Flush

[babyboigsxr]

Hey guys, quick question. Last week, i had my Slotted rotors, ceramic brake pads, and stainless steel braided brake lines installed.

The high end shop that installed them said to break them in for the first 200 miles, it's been 300 miles and it stills feel really rough when stopping. And at times, it really feels like it won't stop in time.

Is that normal?

Other than the Mercedes Benz Brake Fluid. What "BETTER" or "High Performance" brake fluids are there? Where can i buy them?

[gregs210]

Hey, sxr. Did they give you any specific instructions for the break-in period?

Usually that means just don't be hard on them, overheat, look further ahead and avoid panic stops, etc. Which is fine, but that only means the pads are being introduced, if you will, to the rotors. Ceramic pads take much longer to fully settle in to the rotors, perhaps many hundreds of miles or even a thousand depending on several factors, of which one is your driving style.

That said, even once fully mated, when you first start out and until they are in their range of operating temp, ceramic pads often feel pretty "washed out" with poor feedback, pedal feel, etc.

As to "roughness", I think that would be within the realm of terms commonly used to describe hard-compound pads on slotted or drilled rotors. I have drilled rotors on my E with fairly hard pads (compound includes CF, not ceramic) and initially it's "normal", but as the car is slowed to perhaps 10mph and slower with gentle pedal pressure there is a kind of "crunchy" feel to the brakes.

If that doesn't sound like what you're experiencing, then don't mess around with things. Mistakes can be made, parts can be out of range, etc., so if something is bothering you about it and you're not comfortable then take it back in and have them check it out. If it's normal, they'll tell you; in this case it's definitely better safe than sorry.

Re: fluids, there are lots of other products out there. However, the Benz fluid is already special, so in most cases it's unlikely you would feel any difference other than in your wallet. Higher boiling points, etc. are not something the typical Benz driver has to face, unless his/her daily commute is on Pike's Peak.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg



BTW, if that's your car in the sig it looks very nice, very clean. Congrats!

[babyboigsxr]

Originally Posted by gregs210

Hey, sxr. Did they give you any specific instructions for the break-in period?

Usually that means just don't be hard on them, overheat, look further ahead and avoid panic stops, etc. Which is fine, but that only means the pads are being introduced, if you will, to the rotors. Ceramic pads take much longer to fully settle in to the rotors, perhaps many hundreds of miles or even a thousand depending on several factors, of which one is your driving style.

That said, even once fully mated, when you first start out and until they are in their range of operating temp, ceramic pads often feel pretty "washed out" with poor feedback, pedal feel, etc.

As to "roughness", I think that would be within the realm of terms commonly used to describe hard-compound pads on slotted or drilled rotors. I have drilled rotors on my E with fairly hard pads (compound includes CF, not ceramic) and initially it's "normal", but as the car is slowed to perhaps 10mph and slower with gentle pedal pressure there is a kind of "crunchy" feel to the brakes.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg

BTW, if that's your car in the sig it looks very nice, very clean. Congrats!

GREG,

- The high end shop that installed them told me... "for the first 200 miles, don't slam on the brakes or make any sudden stops. Try to go easy on them for at least those 200 miles." Lately, that's all i've been doing, i've been trying my best to be patient, but man... it's really irritating. so far its been about 425 miles since i had them installed, and yet, i still feel no difference

- The way you described the "roughness" is exactly what i'm going through, it has that "crunchy" feel when i'm slowing down under 10 mph. that's whats really really pissing me off. i can never stop smoothly.

- Here's the thing, my setup is this... I have PowerSlot Slotted Rotors all around. I have Hawk Performance Ceramic Brake Pads in front, and Posi Quiet Ceramic Brake Pads in the rear. I have Goodridge Stainless Steel Braided Brake lines all around as well. and as far as the "crunchy" feel, it really seems like its ONLY coming from the front. Why is that? Cause i mean... i have the exact same stuff in the rear. Did i make a poor choice? Should i have bought "CARBON KEVLAR" Brake Pads instead? The reason i bought those specific brake pads was not only for performance, but because of minimal brake dust. for the 425 miles i've driven, the wheels are COMPLETELY DUST-FREE. LoL.

- As for my Signature Pic. Yeah, that's my car. Those pics were taken the week i bought the car (2/19/08), that's when EVERYTHING was stock. I'm glad you like it bro.

[rlwatson]

BaByBoiGsxR,

I had the same like a crunchy/gripping sound just as the car came to a stop. And then a mechanic told me that he found a zit on the inside of one of my front rotors. He smoothed it down with some emery cloth and I haven't had the problem since.

SilkRod

[jtbeche]

This is long, but you may want to read this as well.


Pad and Rotor Bed-In Theory, Definitions and ProceduresCourtesy of StopTechIn order for any brake system to work optimally, the rotors and pads must be properly bedded-in. This process can also be called break-in, conditioning, or burnishing, but whatever terminology you choose, getting the brakes properly bedded-in and keeping them that way is critical to the peak performance of the entire braking system.However, understanding why the rotors and pads need to be bedded-in is just as important as the actual process itself. If one understands what is happening during the bed-in process, then one can tailor the process to specific pads, rotors, and/or driving conditions.What is brake pad “bed-in” anyway?Simply stated, bed-in is the process of depositing an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer, on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc.The all-important transfer layerThe objective of the bed-in process is to deposit an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer, on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc. Note: uneven pad deposits on the rotor face are the number one, and almost exclusive cause of brake judder or vibration.It only takes a small amount of thickness variation in the transfer layer (we're only talking a few ten thousandths of an inch here) to initiate brake vibration. While the impact of an uneven transfer layer is almost imperceptible at first, as the pad starts riding the high and low spots, more and more variation in the thickness of the transfer layer will be naturally generated until the vibration is much more evident. With prolonged exposure, the high spots can become hot spots and can actually change the metallurgy of the rotor in those areas, creating “hard” spots in the rotor face that are virtually impossible to remove.Bedding fundamentalsIn general, bed-in consists of heating a brake system to its adherent temperature to allow the formation of a transfer layer. The brake system is then allowed to cool without coming to rest, resulting in an even transfer layer deposition around the rotor circumference. This procedure is typically repeated two or three times in order to ensure that the entire rotor face is evenly covered with brake pad material. Sounds easy, right? Well, it can be if you have the proper information.Because the adherent temperature range for brake pads varies widely (typically 100°F-600°F for street pads and 600°F-1400°F for race pads), each bed-in needs to be application-specific. One could try to generate a one-size-fits-all procedure, but too little heat during bed-in keeps the material from transferring to the rotor face while overheating the system can generate uneven pad deposits due to the material breaking down on the rotor face.In summary, the key to a successful bed-in is to bring the pads up to their adherent operating temperature in a controlled manner and keep them there long enough to start the pad material transfer process. Different brake system designs, pad types, and driving conditions require different procedures to successfully accomplish the bed-in. The recommended procedures below should provide you with the information you need to select the bed-in procedure appropriate for your application.When a system has both new rotors and pads, there are two different objectives for bedding-in a performance brake system 1) heating up the brake rotors and pads in a prescribed manner, so as to transfer pad material evenly onto the rotors and 2) maturing the pad material, so that resins which are used to bind and form it are ‘cooked' out of the pad.The first objective is achieved by performing a series of slowdowns, so that the brake rotor and pad material are heated steadily to a temperature that promotes the transfer of pad material onto the brake rotor friction surface. There is one pitfall in this process, however, which must be avoided. The rotor and therefore the vehicle, should not be brought to a complete stop with the brakes still applied. This risks the non-uniform transfer of pad material onto the friction surface.The second objective of the bedding-in process is achieved by performing another set of slowdowns, in order to mature the pad itself. This ensures that resins which are used to bind and form the pad material are ‘cooked' out of the pad, at the point where the pad meets the rotor's friction surface.The bed-in process is not complete until both sets of stops have been performed.Bedding-in Street Performance PadsCaution: After installing new pads/rotors or a big brake kit, the first few applications of the brake pedal will result in little or no stopping power. This is normal. Initially, apply the brakes a few times at low speed in order to build up some friction before any high speed driving. 1. Accelerate to a speed of about 60mph and gently apply the brakes to slow the vehicle to about 45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat this couple of times to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This will prevent thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps. 2. Now make a series of eight to ten near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do this by pressing on the brakes firmly without locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! If you stop completely you will imprint pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors as discussed above. (Note: With some street pads, you may need to do fewer than eight near-stops. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes fading, then proceed to the next step.) 3. The brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade is normal and will not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even smoke, is possible. 4. After the 8th near-stop the brakes need 5 to 10 minutes to cool down, so drive the vehicle using the brakes as little as possible. Try not to become trapped in traffic or come to a complete stop while the brakes are still hot. 5. Add four near-stops from 80 to 10mph if bedding-in club race pads such as Hawk Blue and if bedding-in full race pads such as Performance Friction 01 or Hawk HT 14, add four near-stops from 100 to 10 mph. 6. After the bedding-in cycle, there should be a slight blue tint and a light gray deposit on the rotor surface. This blue tint indicates that the rotor has reached bedding-in temperature and the gray film indicates pad material is starting to transfer onto the rotor surface. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors as described above. 7. After the first bedding-in cycle the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle maybe necessary. This is usually the case if you have installed new pads on old rotors or have installed big brake kits. Pedal firmness will often improve after the second cycle and we recommend bleeding the brakes when the second cycle is complete. SummaryIn summary, the key to successfully bedding-in performance brakes is to bring the pads up to their operating temperature range, in a controlled manner, and to keep them there long enough to start the pad material transfer process. Different brake system designs, pad types, and driving conditions require different procedures to achieve a successful bed-in. The procedures recommended above should provide a useful starting point for developing bed-in procedures appropriate to individual applications.

[babyboigsxr]

The procedures given seems pretty understandable. But now the question is... will the cops understand why i'm speeding then stopping, speeding then stopping, speeding then stopping. LoL.

I'm gonna give it a shot if i get the opportunity on empty road.